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PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

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J.D. Welch

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PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostWed May 24, 2017 7:21 am

Hey, fellow cyborgs, I've been dallying with the Colonials for a while, since I'm playing them in a campaign we just started, but I miss my PHR! Also, my PHR are awesomely painted (by Achilles, not me) and other than the LVO I haven't had a chance to use them. Included in my painted PHR is a Minos, which I prefer to the Heracles, at least on paper, but Major Awesome's antics in our last tournament tend to bear out my thoughts there (he took a Minos).

So here is a 1,500 point list (they're all the rage here in Phoenix) that I've noodled over for quite some time, and which I present for your consumption and critique:

--------------------------------------
PHR 1500 - BB00-210 - 1496pts
PHR - 10 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (359pts)
1 x Minos - 285pts - S
   + Fleet Vizier (20pts, 2AV)
2 x Calypso - 74pts - L

SR15 Vanguard battlegroup (315pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Ganymede - 135pts - M

SR13 Vanguard battlegroup (270pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (156pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (168pts)
3 x Echo - 90pts - L
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

Now, at first glance, it may seem that this is a bit all over the place, but these are my thoughts:

I really like the Bellerophon. A lot. My last game was vs Sam, whose Scourge devastated all comers at our last event; I was playing my UCM vs him last Friday, and had zero Seattles to his pair of Hydras. Well, those Hydras just wrecked my sh!t. So, for the Launch(4) and BTL on each, I've taken two Belles. I've split them up, too, so that they can cover different parts of the table, if necessary; this may not be optimal in terms of their BTLs not hitting together in the same activation, but, well, we shall see. This keeps their BG SR's below 20, which is a drawback to taking a pair of Bellerophon in the same BG.

I'm also a big fan of PHR Troopships, and split them up, as well, and while each could go their separate ways if they were in the same BG, I wanted to split them up so that I'm not telegraphing my intent with both of them in the same activation. I put the two Medea with the Orpheus in order to split up my bombardment capability, too, to give the Orpheus some OB to work with. It also lets the Orpheus be in a low, SR7 BG, and by splitting up both the Belles and the Orpheus and Ganymede, none of my BGs hit the nasty SR20 mark.

As I mentioned, I prefer the Minos to the Heracles for its ability to use all of its power (or at least one side, anyway) without having to go Weapons Free. I put the Calypsos with the Minos based on the good Major's experience with them; he took a pair with a pair of Orion's (two BGs like that, IIRC), but ended up using one pair of the Calypsos with his Minos most of the time, so I just started out with this Flag configuration. By paying for an AV2 Admiral I still end up with an effective AV4, and ended up with one more Echo by taking the lower AV leader. (BTW, I do have my command cards, looking forward to using those!)

The Pathfinder groups are both intentionally small, and once again Sam is the reason for this. In last Friday's game he had an SR6 BG of six Djinn, Which absolutely wrecked four New Orleans on Turn 2, and then took out three of four Santiagos (after the Santiagos and a pair of Berlins only thinned them down by half). We tied on SR's for that first Turn 2 flip, and had equal AV, but he won the rolloff. With what I've got in my Pathfinder BGs, that shouldn't happen again. (If I can get a game this Friday, it will be vs Sam and his wicked Scourge list again, or a variation of it.)

I've also got a decent amount of Drop with the two Troopships and eight Medea. This is essential in my meta, and I believe simply a good idea overall, especially at 1,500 points.

Finally, I've got two hunting packs of Echoes. Yes, they're both only 3x each, and that might turn out to not be enough oomph for either to get the job done, but PHR points being what they are, it's hard to do much with leftover points if I were to take fewer corvettes but put them together, and a BG of six just seemed, I don't know, not efficient in terms of board coverage.

So, there you have it, I think that's everything. I'm a sucker for Launch, and I haven't used it in a long while, so my Belles made it to the ball this time. Plus, aside from the Echoes, which are unbuilt, I have all of these ships in my collection, and not too many other options.

Your turn: Whatcha thinking?
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CaptainCrunch

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostWed May 24, 2017 1:40 pm

I really like this fleet! It should go very well with the PHR Command Cards. My only suggestion would be to find a he points to up your admiral to lvl 3 so you can get max Command Cards.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 2:06 am

Thanks!

I can do that by dropping an Echo and being 14 points under (neither of which is desirable, IMHO); I did the opposite of that to get to this list as it is now. I'm OK with an AV4 (effectively) Admiral for the extra Echo, at least out of the chute...
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

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shuul

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 6:54 am

Hi!
Nice list, though I have few comments for it:
1. From experience PHR battleships are durable enough to stay on board without Calypso's help, so its better used in some other groups that will die faster without it.
2. Minos is great, but in practice good and fast opponent (scourge, shaltari) will do his best to avoid your scan. Heracles is better in the role of heavy fire support and lasts longer. UCM will shit itself facing Minos though :) (smart scourge will avoid it as well, so keep him with other assets to cover, do not use it as your main attacking vessel)
3. 3-packs of Echo are not that good, they really shine in 4-6 packs, where loosing one of them is not a big deal.
4. Your list lacks active-scan component (just 2 calypsos, but Minos will need to course change/max thrust a lot). Shaltari are your worst enemy.

Here is my list to compare:
--------------------------------------
1500-2 - 1482pts
PHR - 4 launch assets

SR15 Flag battlegroup (285pts)
1 x Heracles - 285pts - S
+ Fleet Vizier (20pts, 2AV)

SR15 Vanguard battlegroup (315pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Ganymede - 135pts - M

SR12 Line battlegroup (334pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
2 x Calypso - 74pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (252pts)
2 x Theseus - 178pts - M
2 x Calypso - 74pts - L

SR5 Pathfinder battlegroup (159pts)
3 x Echo - 90pts - L
1 x Echo - 30pts - L
1 x Medea - 39pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (117pts)
2 x Medea - 78pts - L
1 x Medea - 39pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

As for SR5 Echo group - I added 1 Medea to keep BG available if all Echos will die, though you need to be careful with manoeuvring Medea that left.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 7:45 am

shuul wrote:Hi!

Hi!
shuul wrote:Nice list
Thanks.
shuul wrote:, though I have few comments for it:
OK
shuul wrote:1. From experience PHR battleships are durable enough to stay on board without Calypso's help, so its better used in some other groups that will die faster without it.
Good point. However, I'm going off of Major Awesome's experience (he came in second place the first time he used his PHR, in an 8-player field). He took 2x(2x Orion + 2x Calypso), IIRC, and said his Calypsos (2 of them, at least) ended up hanging out with his Minos every game. Also, the Calypsos can break off and go wherever for a modest cost, should the need arise.
shuul wrote:2. Minos is great, but in practice good and fast opponent (scourge, shaltari) will do his best to avoid your scan. Heracles is better in the role of heavy fire support and lasts longer. UCM will shit itself facing Minos though :) (smart scourge will avoid it as well, so keep him with other assets to cover, do not use it as your main attacking vessel)
Currently I only have the Minos built, so I'm sticking with that for this Friday (assuming my game doesn't fall thru). I'll be facing Scourge, specifically a Daemon. Should be interesting...
shuul wrote:3. 3-packs of Echo are not that good, they really shine in 4-6 packs, where loosing one of them is not a big deal.
I tend to agree with you there, but I need to keep that SR4 Medea group below 6 to survive the Djinn assault that will likely be coming. Also, the list doesn't really work if I drop 2 Echo -- what can I do with 60 + 4 points? Pretty much nothing. The list isn't built around the corvettes, but the corvettes are there to do a job, mainly to counter other corvettes. But I agree that, in general, corvette squads need to be 4-6 strong; will see what happens...
shuul wrote:4. Your list lacks active-scan component (just 2 calypsos, but Minos will need to course change/max thrust a lot). Shaltari are your worst enemy.
Excellent point about the Minos and Special Orders. I'll take a look and see where I can move those Calypsos to... plus, I can potentially leave a Medea in Low Orbit to Active Scan early on...

shuul wrote:Here is my list to compare:
--------------------------------------
+++ shuul's list+++

Even with three PHR-tough Troopships, six Medea just wouldn't cut it in my meta.

Also, not a fan of running a pair of Orpheus (or Ganymede) together, as they can't break away from each other. I can see how you'd saturate a cluster with Infantry from both Orpheus, but Strike Carriers can drop Armor, and that's sorta required in my meta.

As I said, I'm limited by what I have, so I can't run a pair of Theseus, or a Heracles at the moment. But I'll keep your list for future reference.

Thanks!
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shuul

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 8:07 am

Yeah, it seems that my meta is less land-focused, we rarely play missions with only clusters, usually its 50/50 with space stations (or at lease 1/3rd) and that is where troopships shine. Also we use critical locations more often than proposed by rulebook.
This leads to more balanced games and lists, which is a problem in current rules. Armor-drop is still the must against Shaltari though.

Please share results of your game against Scourge, I'm very interested in how it goes :)

Edit:
the best thing against Djinn assault from my experience is 5-Echo BG, usually Scourge players max-out their Djinn groups. so 5SR is exactly what is needed. In one of my game max-thrust last on turn 1 and silent run first on 2nd turn brought down 3 djinns, Echo is best for frigate hunting :) (though you need to keep in mind command cards that can wreck your plans)
And regarding 2 Orpheus - troop saturation is not their only role :) they go weapons free under Calypso protection above heavily contested cluster and usually take down 2 enemy strike carriers per turn (you get 24 shots on 6+ on each side).
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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 2:52 pm

List seems solid with your aknowledged weaker areas. I personally don't like the Ganymede at all, especially with all your Medea. Maybe that 5pts swap to an Orphesus would help with your Echo and Admiral problem? I'd also consider dropping a single Medea. I know you hate the idea of that but if those changes get you an extra Echo and the AV boost it might be worth it. Haven't done the math so it might need other tweking.

shuul, I'm curious how you use the Critical Locations more that the book. There are only 2 missions where everything isn't a Critical Location based on my quick review of the missions and those 2 are Erupting Battlefront and the Space Station Assult missions. Are you counting them as 3VP like some have suggested?
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shuul

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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Cry of the Wind wrote: Are you counting them as 3VP like some have suggested?


In few games we were counting them depending on the cluster size, e.g. large cluster critical is also 4VP, space stations - depending on its size.
But now we will play according to Tournament pack, will see how it goes.
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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostThu May 25, 2017 5:40 pm

In some of my demo games, I intentionally use smaller clusters than suggested. It has a similar effect of making the critical locations relatively more valuable. I've gone so far as to use 2x small clusters and a 3x medium cluster, which would almost be the same having he CL point match the ground points.
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Re: PHR 1,500 Pt List - Now With a Battleship!

PostTue Nov 07, 2017 11:58 am

This is looking like a pretty varied list, with a couple similarities to my own, though we differ in a couple of key areas.

Instead of having my Orpheus together, I have a pair of Ajax to do the heavy lifting putting damage on targets.
The Orpheus then are free to support the Medea, running concerted effort to take the ground in well ordered waves.

A pair of Bellerophon in a Vanguard can murder just about anything. they can target 1 ship with their BTL, and another with the Bombers, or they can spread out and attempt to cripple 4 ships in a turn. I tend to keep them paired up on targets however.

As others have said, the Ganymede is an odd duck in a faction of odd ducks, the trouble is it tries to do too many things at once, and doesn't do any of them well enough.
The Medea can handle bombardment, and the Orhpeus brings enough firepower to counter-punch enemy Strike Carriers in Atmo, then lurk to hold Clusters on the important turns, and should survive long enough to kill anything that tries to oppose it.

a group of 6 Echo seems to be the sweet spot on Escorts, and run by themself I can use them either as an early card to strike a key target, or hold them back and force the opponent to present a target for them. With this many they also prove a threat to Cruisers, or anything with a Massive Spike on it. (UCM H&S targets, looking at you here)


PHR 1500 - 1498pts
PHR - 8 launch assets

SR16 Flag battlegroup (322pts)
1 x Heracles - 285pts - S
+ Director (80pts, 4AV)
1 x Calypso - 37pts - L

SR20 Vanguard battlegroup (360pts)
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H
1 x Bellerophon - 180pts - H

SR7 Line battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
1 x Medea - 39pts - L
1 x Medea - 39pts - L

SR7 Line battlegroup (208pts)
1 x Orpheus - 130pts - M
1 x Medea - 39pts - L
1 x Medea - 39pts - L

SR10 Line battlegroup (200pts)
1 x Ajax - 100pts - M
1 x Ajax - 100pts - M

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (180pts)
3 x Echo - 90pts - L
3 x Echo - 90pts - L

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