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Attention Commanders!

Tell the world your Dropzone related trials and tribulations!
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TTCombatDan

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Attention Commanders!

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 11:09 am

+ High Priority Message +

We are at WAR! this forum seems like it is at peace time!
Peace makes a soldier soft, makes you lose your edge, are you ready to give up the fight? No i didn't think so, so lets get back to business!

We know things have been quiet as of late but with HQ being bogged down with all the requests for the delayed reinforcements and repair work to damaged and faulty equipment our communication channels have been rather blocked.

We are well on the way getting these issues sorted and you should be seeing the reinforcements arriving in your sectors very soon if they are not there all ready.

The New Talon Program is in the works and will be dispensed to those with the relevant security clearance one this has been approved by High Command, please keep any records of Talon related missions and feed this back to HQ through the approved channels (info@hawkwargames.com) so that you can be appropriately compensated.

Things are progressing and there will be more news and reports whenever able but for now keep fighting and more importantly winning!

- TTC High Command

+ End Message +
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Gauntlet

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostFri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 am

haha love it!
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SwordOfJustice

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostSun Dec 03, 2017 9:20 am

I'll post a few thoughts here to generate some discussion. Feel free to move this into its own thread.

I hope we will see stability, accurate follow through, and steady releases in 2018 and beyond. Wargamers are impulsive and need regular ongoing releases that excite them.

Here are some of my thoughts that might lift up Dropzone and make it a more exciting game.


- Put the effort in to play balance special characters then make them official! Goodness, the models take production effort and people like and buy them. Then they can't play with them in official games? It's not a good way.

You want the game to have as much as possible to catch and excite a wargamer's imagination and get them playing with those models.

I mention play balance because the special commanders are way out of whack. The Scourge flying commander with 6 E10 shots is way OP and the UCM Ferrum commander gets a re-roll to hit on one drone. Seriously? :?

Recommend Troll Trader discuss with Dave and play balance all special commanders then every six months, release a special unit a character can take, with perhaps an alternate lower powered version that you can take without the character. This would be exciting and interesting.

- Develop the game universe, and not with "Powerpoint-like" campaign updates we've seen in the previous rulebooks. "Day +147 We have made progress in the campaign blah blah". Sorry, but in my opinion it's quite boring and a missed chance to develop the game universe in an exciting way.

Make it more real, more living, more detailed. Name the UCM fleets and famous legions. Name some famous formations in other factions. Start making up more characters in the game universe. Flesh out the game universe. How is trade going in the colonies? What is UCM society like? What is happening with the countless millions of non combat Scourge that have been captured? Follow up on how the special characters who have been released so far are involved in the war. The UCM must've captured many Scourge micro fusion reactors and anti gravity units by now, even with self destruct mechanisms. Are they progressing their technology?

And so on.

What made Games Workshop into the giant it is now? Art, imagination, emotional hooks based on historical arche types. Now GW has built up a vast, exciting and bankable IP.

Can anyone who plays Dropzone/Dropfleet name even one famous formation in the game world? Yet, anyone who's played 40K can reel off dozens of chapters of Space Marines, factions, special characters and points of lore in that universe.

The artwork Hawk created by Patrice was mostly amazing and I would like more of that along with serious development of the universe.

The best part of the last rulebook was the exciting story developments where we see the PHR have a mole on the top UCM military council. The development of the game story is a great feature of the Hawk games. We see the war progressing and the Scourge have now found the United Colonies and counter attacked. This is excellent and exactly what I'm advocating.


- I know Dave is against wargear, but some wargear is a way to spend those last few points and personalise your army. And wargamers love that! I want my force to be special and just the way I want it. Forming an emotional connection to your models is important to at least some wargamers, so it works for part of the market. I think this is also part of what made GW into a giant. Some wargear can bring a faction's theme to life and allows for that personalisation.


- To further that aspect of personalisation, if we see some of the famous units of the game universe defined, then players might start to make forces based on that official canon. It certainly happened in GW games.


- I would like to see some "cracks" appear in the unity of the PHR and UCM, where there are dissenting political forces which could potentially form splinter forces. This would then give a game universe reason for "blue on blue" fights on the tabletop.


- I'd like to see the Fauna released as models and a well balanced tournament mission created that use them. Then perhaps a special and exciting Feral Resistance character could have them as part of an army list. And maybe Scourge could use some infested fauna as throw away shock troops.


Anyway, just some thoughts to start a discussion. :)

Cheers,
Sword
We have evolved beyond mere flesh and bone. We are the Post Human Republic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBC9LIUpKeo
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alpha1983

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostTue Dec 05, 2017 9:55 pm

I could not agree more with Sword of Justice.
I know that balancing multiple units with several options is hard, but I think it would give the game boost in "playability". It would be nice to add a set of heavy machineguns to my legionares, to be able to add some extra shooting dice; or change their assault rifles for shotguns, to improve CQC but remove the ability to shoot at aircraft and reduce their shooting range; posibility of changing the AT rocket launcher for an AA missile that gives more damage to AA, but lets the unit without ability to attack to tanks...
Changes do not need to be very big, just adding and removing something gives a tremendous flexibility to the game, and adds to the feeling that you're that commander that has been given that special mission and has handpicked his troops.

Special characters do not need to get a different miniature either, or a very different loadout, but must provide a narrative that the players can relate to.
What about providing a campaing for Samuel Helburn, where he unites his scatered troops, escapes the ambush from the PHR and the local resistance and ends up sending to space the Yatch, as is described in Phase2? That would be fun.
The defense and destruction of Atlantia by Salakhan can be another mini campaign that can involve several different armies, from small engagements to big battles.
Or a quick campaign describing how a stealthy group of Shaltary play one army against each other to erode their opponents.

Dropzone has some excelent miniatures, but also others that are not that good. It would be great, if miniatures like the PHR Sirens would get a reesculpt, because old ones are quite horrible.

Last but not least, please provide free rules, so people can get to try this game by themselves, and get a phone app for the game!
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Lordprinceps

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 12:05 am

I agree very heavily on the need for more universe expansion of some kind (even if it's not anywhere near as expansive as Black Library), as well as famous commanders being properly balanced such that they could be brought into tournament games.

However, I'm not sure on how I personally feel about wargear and customizable units.
Obviously there's the example of, say, heavy machine gun Legionnaires or what have you, but I feel like the current schema of the game works well. Rather than having one unit with a bunch of options, there's similar units that are all pretty much variants of each other.

The problem comes into play when you have a huge amount of combinations, with the component weapons/accesories interacting in varying ways that don't necessarily reflect their component's costs. The solution then is to either price each combination of components, or to exclude certain combinations explicitly.

At it's core, that's basically what Hawk's current method of "units that are basically similar variants " is. This is especially true in DFC, where the overall number of possible ship combinations is drastically larger than what we have. Having all of them as different units with no customization is exactly the same thing as restricting what combinations of some base unit there can be, as well as individually costing the combinations that have been allowed.
Though, to be fair, there already is some wargear already in the game. The missile pod upgrades for the UCM, the double plasma cannon for the Despoiler, the Triton upgrades, and the Apollo. Stuff like that is acceptable since there's only one option that can be taken at a time, or for example, something like:
One of the following may be taken in addition for its listed cost: A for X, B for Y, etc etc

TL;DR: Small amounts of wargear is acceptable, but having too much unit customization can quickly make balancing very difficult, rather than having a smaller amount of separate units that are similar variants.
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Egge

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 06, 2017 5:17 pm

Small upgrades are already available to most armies. UCM have their transport rockets. Scourge have their bats. PHR have gun upgrades to all light transports. Shaltari have scout guns. Resistance AA guns on their transports.

Most people wanting upgrades usually want stuff that are a obvious choice and not fillers. For me, the point fillers are there and easy to access.

Regarding special commanders I left 40k for a reason. Special units should always pay a premium price and not a balanced price as most balanced price assume that you do not use more of the characters special ability. We see this in just the overseer where it's ability is kind of ok in a scourge army with little of this and little of that but people take more Plasma guns just because it vastly make the special rule better.
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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 12:46 am

A few more small options to put the left over points in would be nice but I don't see the point it adding too much of it. I would rather look towards the command cards if more customization is wanted.

The current model with special unis as the commanders and as something else as well is great. And in a way it's simialr to what you are suggesting since the standard versions of the commanders tend to be similair to the commander but in a more balanced way.
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Lordprinceps

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 1:23 am

To be fair, Egge, a "balanced price" for those commanders would nominally include the premium you're paying for all their abilities and so forth, as well as the command value itself. Example being Wade vs the normal Broadsword:

Normal Broadsword is just 79 points.

Wade is 280 in total, of which:
140 are his CV
Presumably 90-100 are for the upgraded Broadsword
Leaving 40-50 points for his specials

Now, this may or may not be a balanced price for tournaments, and in fact none of the commanders may be, but the current commanders do range from paying a reasonable cost for their unit/CV/abilities, and not at all.
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Gauntlet

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 am

Not gonna lie... named commanders as balanced and tournament legal really turns me off... but I would be open to specific alternate force organizations (perhaps 3 per faction) for each faction. Replete with limiting certain units to certain army types.

For example (UCM), perhaps a list alternate where you can take Gladius as Standard, Broadswords as Command, but you simply don't have access to Eagles or Drone Carriers and a few other toys or such.

I'd avoid discounts, and there would be no "unique super unit".

That I could see giving the game more variety without destabilizing the game.
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Egge

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostFri Dec 08, 2017 7:55 am

Lordprinceps wrote:sensible things
I can agree that the commanders points should be evaluated and balanced. though I am still skeptical to have them in tournament games.
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