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How would you spice up force orgs?

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Gauntlet

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostWed Jul 12, 2017 5:41 pm

I agree... FM probably just deserve there one squad type, and I'd add one to the Command and Infantry Groups. In general.

I also am intrigued at the idea of doing 5 BG I might just test doing 5 BG at 1500 Clash and see how that goes.
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killionaire

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostThu Jul 13, 2017 11:59 pm

Honestly, I'd spice DOWN force orgs.

Make standard choices part of unlock requirements.

So that your core BG has 'standard' requirement to field
Your heavy BG has 'standard', 'heavy' requirements to field
Your scout BG has 'standard', 'scout' requirements to field.
Air wings can get a standard slot and up to two infantry slots. Requirement is aircraft.

That'd make things more interesting IMO.
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Berjiz

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostFri Jul 14, 2017 12:01 am

Interesting idea with dropping a bg. I think I like it, too often I find myself having to force in another bg to get the sixth one. A lot of bgs also only contain one squad. Having to have multiple squads per bg introduces more tactical choices and challenges to list building.
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Gauntlet

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostFri Jul 14, 2017 2:48 am

I also like your point Killionaire... but I think I would then want is alternate force orgs available (for a cost of some sort) that allow me to mostly recreate current flexibility.
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Slade

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostSat Jul 15, 2017 2:55 pm

Multi faction lists.
Heck for scourge you could have ucm and other units they have salvaged from the battlefields.
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Lorn

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostTue Jul 18, 2017 8:01 am

How to easily break any tabletops balance in one step.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017
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Slade

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostTue Jul 18, 2017 11:36 am

Not saying for tournaments or anything Lorn. Just something along the lines of special commander rules for fun matches. ;)
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Novus

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 3:15 am

Make commanders more central to the game instead of an afterthought. As some of you already know, I'm a big proponent of linking reserve roll bonuses for FMs to command level. Additionally, I would like to explore how command level could be linked to the total number of rare units in a list. This is a post I wrote on that second subject:

http://greenstuffindustries.blogspot.com/2017/07/dropzone-commander-rare-but-not-scarce.html

Commanders should have an army built around them rather than be viewed as a required unit to spend as few points on as possible.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 4:06 am

Novus wrote:Make commanders more central to the game instead of an afterthought. As some of you already know, I'm a big proponent of linking reserve roll bonuses for FMs to command level. Additionally, I would like to explore how command level could be linked to the total number of rare units in a list. This is a post I wrote on that second subject:

http://greenstuffindustries.blogspot.com/2017/07/dropzone-commander-rare-but-not-scarce.html

Commanders should have an army built around them rather than be viewed as a required unit to spend as few points on as possible.

That's just it, tho -- I don't do that, I pick my Commander first, and his/her CV, because commanders are required (at Clash and Battle, at least) and I'm building my list around that Commander.

For example, if I want to run my Nemesis, I'll generally put a CV3 Commander in it to start out with to be sure I've got the points for all of that. I also find that my Nemesis tends to die easily (when an opponent really wants him dead), so why bother putting a higher CV in him than 3? On the other hand, I'd almost never drop to a CV2 in a Nemesis, because that's just an insult to the greatness of the PHR Command Cards, and I'll bump him up from CV3 to CV4 if I've got enough points left over and nothing else worthwhile to spend them on. (Stealth missiles on all my Tritons? Or a better chance at winning Initiative and getting access to more cards? That's an easy one!)

Same thing goes for the Hera, since she tends to lead from the front, and can die relatively quickly. But a Zeus, I'll start out with CV4 and stretch it to CV5 if I can. (And I intend to try a Zeus/3x Odin/Njord command brick one of these days!)

A lot depends on the meta, I guess, and what you tend to face, and that will often adjust what a player from a different meta would prioritize in their list.

UCM and Resistance cards simply suck, especially Feral, and are too situational and specific, like bringing FMs or getting your Infantry into CQBs (the latter of which I try to avoid at all costs with the UCM!). But were I to play my Scourge, I'd start out with a CV5 Commander and only adjust down to a CV4 if I absolutely had to based on everything else I needed to take. Likewise, I don't see the benefit of taking anything less than a CV4 Shaltari Commander, either, their cards are so good. So I guess a lot could depend on the opponents you regularly face (again, a meta thing...).
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Gauntlet

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Re: How would you spice up force orgs?

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 11:57 pm

So are you saying, that if you choose to use a very low level commander, you suddenly and significantly change your idea of what types of units you take? (obviously beyond the command unit and body guard) I think if you do, you're in a very very small minority. Whilst people do value commanders for their initiative and cards of course, and that might impact unit choice, simply out of their cost... I don't think many of us choose say... "I'm going to take Stalkers instead of Hunters because that will work better with a Level 1 or 2 Commander".

So I think his comment about wanting commanders to dictate more of the force organization is pretty interesting.

I could certainly see adding a "class" rating to each unit... which then dictates what level of commander is necessary to allow you to take said unit.

For example. Say we reduce Commanders to 3 levels. This is just an example, don't take the points too seriously.

Level 1: +1 Initiative, Draws 3 Cards. 25 Points
Level 2: +2 Initiative, Draws 4 Cards. 50 Points
Level 3: +3 Initiative, Draws 5 Cards. 100 Points

Now lets look at UCM Heavy options... there are three... the Gladius, Scimitar, and Broadsword.

Respectively, we could class Gladius at 1, Scimitars at 2, and Broadswords at 3. If you do not have a Level 3 Commander you cannot take a Broadsword. Your commander is simply not important enough to gain access to this unit.


The upside of this system is that it gives us a new mechanic to balance varied units that sometimes simply overtake other units. Think those Scimitars are just obsolete? Well... if you REALLY want to stay at Level 2 Commander... then you just can't have that Broadsword and the Scimitars suddenly become a more attractive option, because they provide a similar role, albeit, perhaps in a less convenient package.

Its an interesting concept having the Commanders become the focal point of list building instead of... a respectful side-role. Right now, I'd argue the most dominant factor in list building is infantry squad count, or Battlegroup counts.
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