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Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

Tell the world your Dropzone related trials and tribulations!
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LiamK

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Dropzone Commander 2nd Edition

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Hi Guys,

We are so excited to have announced Version 2. Please discuss anything related to it in this topic. What do you hope to see? More will be revealed on Monday when the Beasts of War video goes live.
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Nobody

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 1:37 pm

Personally I'm hoping to see less reasons for me to rely on demo, let's see some love for Praetorians and Fireblades
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Ruarl

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 1:41 pm

Very exciting news! And lovely new art of an Archangel.

Given your experience with your previous systems, do you intend to take some steps to improve the "v1.0" quality of your rules? The handfuls of paper which go along with the first edition Dropfleet book sully its otherwise beautiful form.
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LiamK

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 2:08 pm

Ruarl wrote:Very exciting news! And lovely new art of an Archangel.

Given your experience with your previous systems, do you intend to take some steps to improve the "v1.0" quality of your rules? The handfuls of paper which go along with the first edition Dropfleet book sully its otherwise beautiful form.


First and foremost we want to keep the core elements that make Dropzone Commander the game it is. So the things that work very well already will stay pretty much the same. We have received a lot of feedback over the years regarding the game and they're are certain areas that need a much cleaner explanation and certain clarifications.

So we intend to make sure the game is as sleek as possible and keep that unit balance between all the factions as much as possible!
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BlackLegion

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 2:23 pm

I hope Ancient Once and Corsairs are now worthwhile :-)
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Egge

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 2:34 pm

Wishlist:

*Units in reserve can be used as a dad activation or units not starting or ending their movement on the table may not be activated. Either go full to allow units to available from reserve to be dead activations or go full that units not on table may not be dead activations.

*Decrease of walk on units and demo. Make it less reliable. a Simple 4+ to be able to shoot first turn else you enter turn 2 automatically would help (but if you do not shoot you can enter turn 1). Only for non-transports.

*Make use of the FM models. They are today not needed. I like the mechanic (as long it is not to powerful) but the models ar not needed and are seldom used.

*Falling masonry to E 5.

*Hot LZ should count for the units being dropped off as well. I e the unit dropping off can not disembark within 3" of an enemy from flying transports. Thus enlarging the Hot LZ rule. It is today not used enough and is such cool element.

*Woods as a stand in to buildings. With very small changes the buildings can be replaced with woods. Or rocks. Gives more variation.

*Dedicated and clear rules for scattered terrain.

*Gives Shaltari a drawback that hurts! Today they are the faction where it doesn't hurt that their gates are destroyed. It gives the impressions they do not care. All other factions have much more to risk with transports. Something so that Shaltari risk something when loosing a gate would make it more fun.

*Clearer CQB rules.

*Not making the missions more like 40k. Things like Recon, Search, Objectives and critical locations are great and should be expanded upon - not decreased.

*rare to be 0 in skirmish. 0-1 in normal games and 0-2 in 2000+ games.
Last edited by Egge on Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Klarg1

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 2:44 pm

What do I wish for? Clarification, cleanup, and tweaking. I really enjoy Dropzone, as a tight, balanced, and highly tactical game. I'd hate to see radical changes to it.

- As everybody else says, fast movers could use some help to become more relevant in competitive play.

- To me, the CQB rules seem a bit more complex than they need to be. I'm not sure if they need to change, or simply be clarified a bit.

- I'm sure there are many small tweaks that could be made to individual units
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SwordOfJustice

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 3:45 pm

My most wanted items follow.

- Falling masonry becomes E5. Demolition is instantly balanced better with this.

- Infantry which are also Scouts (e.g. Praetorian Snipers) can be Forward Air Controllers. It just makes sense and starts to make FM more useful.

- FAC do not need LOS to an enemy unit to give the benefit to FM availability rolls. Infantry are almost always busy on important tasks. Also, there are so many infantry killing weapons in the game now that coming to the walls is often suicidal. We can imagine in the future that all units are meshed into a digital battlespace sharing sensor information between each other so FAC do not need their own LOS to help call in air strikes.

- FAC locked in CQB provide no benefit to FM availability rolls as they are busy fighting for their lives. CQB becomes a way to lock down FAC.

- Add a Scout slot to all Fast Mover battlegroups. This allows the option of taking an ontable squad in that BG so you don't lose a BG while waiting for the FM to come out of reserve, which is a *massive* penalty.

- Did you know that Insubstantial Area Features count as Tough to infantry? Yet infantry have always known to be best deployed in rough terrain. Get rid of this very dumb rule.

- Change Insubstantial Area Features so that they are passible to Aircraft. Why would grass and light vegetation stop a multi-ton lander from landing and disembarking tanks or troops? Remove the rule about blocking LOS to aircraft if higher than 1". Infantry and vehicles get Soft Cover and that's good enough.

- Specify that a unit with an edge of the model at the edge of an Area Feature gains benefit of cover but takes no penalty to its own shooting. I don't think that's called out in the rules but is very sensible.

- Change Substantial Area Features to be Tough for vehicles and impassible to Skimmers. This allows Walkers to move in it at full speed due to their Walker special rule. This also means infantry can move at full speed in it.

- Allow air transports to safely land on aircon ducts and similar light roof structures. I think it looks great to play with painted aircon terrain. This way you'd have a consistent interpretation of these terrain pieces and no penalty to players who want to use them.

- Allow air transports which have lost their squad to chose a new squad of the same type to partner with. By same type, I mean of the same mounting type. It would need some thought on how to write the actual rule but you get what I mean: a Raven-A could carry another infantry or exotic squad, a Condor with two mounts could reassign to carry Bears or Gladii. The air transport is then considered part of that new squad and will join that battlegroup. This would go a long way to making transports more cost effective and it just makes sense. Are you telling me that an APC driver won't go pick up a stranded squad who are being cut to ribbons under enemy fire? Think "Black Hawk Down" movie. It's not unlimited, you can only do it if the original squad is wiped out. Which makes this new rule not as good as the Shaltari shared gates situation.

- Have you ever noticed that infantry can't even run across a street in the space of one game turn? God, it breaks my immersion! New rule: infantry units can forgo firing and run at double normal speed.

- Change the bonus for good ground to include +2" MF as well. Have you seen modern tanks firing while moving fast? This is meant to be a futuristic game.

- Add new rule: all vehicle units can move at flank speed. No firing, no embarking or disembarking, +2" move. This is mainly aimed at units which move 2"-3" which is paralytic. Yes, this does shift balance back to drive on units and armies but the proposed change allowing air transports which lose their cargo to reassign to other squads tends to counter it. Also, the missions with Critical Locations have already made a huge shift away from drive on.

- PHR Manslayer cannons For Erebos-B or Apollo-B walkers are pathetic and Flamer units are underwhelming one trick ponies. Why would you spend points on partially negating enemy infantry with flamers when you can spend those points on infantry which can not only negate enemy infantry, but also grab objectives, fire small arms at aircraft, etc, etc? And flame weapons often do less damage than expected with a low E vs things like Shaltari War Suits or Destroyers. So I just thought of a brilliant rule: allow weapons with Flamer to have Focus-1. You can trade hits for higher E which means that flame unit just keeps firing in a tight spray instead of spreading it around. Finally some flame units will have the chance to hurt enemy vehicles which makes them useful when there are no infantry targets around. Also add +1 Accuracy penalty for flame weapons when firing at vehicles.

- Make Scourge Aged Ones about 5 points cheaper. Maybe more since they lose out on combined plasma shots due to their accuracy penalty.

- The poor old Desolator has been a disappointment since day one of this game. It is hard to get the strike off and not rewarding enough if you do. One crucial reason is that Scourge are an "in your face army", so your own units get in the way and are often hurt. Change the Accuracy to 2+/4+ (6"/12"). Also add a special rule that all Scourge units with Active Counter Measures have built-in shielding against this attack. Scourge units are only hit on a 6+. Finally, the Desolator would be the feared "anti-cluster" unit it always should have been.

- Give PHR Taranis high tech ammunition. Come on, UCM Longbows get amazing capabilities, yet the more advanced PHR doesn't? All ammo is Alt-1. Range on all rounds is R(C) 24". New weapon profile Constellation - Black Nanomachines: E10, Devastator-2, IF. Suddenly the unit has a useful anti-tank function. Change Constellation - Detonator to Demo D3+1. This would finally make the Taranis a useful demo unit. Change Constellation Air Burst to Accuracy 1+. Gives a better hit chance against super dodgy infantry which would give it a unique capability the Longbow doesn't have. With these new stats, the Taranis would be a viable and comparable to the UCM Longbow. I believe the Thor would still have a place with the ability to generate longer ranges from Barrage.

- Shaltari Firedrake is the most no brainer unit in the game right now. Let's recap: an air unit with MF10", a 48" template weapon that in practice rarely misses at any range, powerful secondary abilities (gate, weapon that murders infantry including Free Riders and Medusae, short range high E option), shield and 5 DP. It's guaranteed attrition. Even if you play very badly and let enemy AA get a shot at it, you are well protected with 5+ shield and 5 DP. This unit simply has no risk vs reward. It's forces all enemy skimmers to deploy into tiny triangles of deadzones behind buildings and heaven help them if the Drake gets to see 10% of a model. Proposal: change the template weapon to 30" range for small template, 20" for medium, 10" for large. At least then it has to "come and play" and gives enemy AA some chance to catch it and it usually won't get a turn one shot.

- Shaltari Warspire Totem to cost +10 points. It's just too good for what it does and the amount of AT fire it takes to get rid of it. We all should know by now that it's an ambusher for mid game with a very useful secondary ability. It's also a focal point nabber. Yes, it is immobile and needs gate capacity. Any good Shaltari player plans their drops on T1, T2, T3 in advance so that is a false weakness. A good player designs his list with the gate capacity that's needed for effective play of the Totem. The Jaguars and Havens go down early which frees up plenty of gates for Totem ambushes. Let's not kid ourselves about it. +10 points should be fairer without nerfing this unit.

- PHR Immortals to cost 34 points. It's always irked me that they are more expensive than Braves which are COMPLETELY BETTER IN EVERY WAY. Phew! Got that off my chest. :D

- PHR Enyo 58 pts, which is 7 pts cheaper. There is no way that they are as good as Odins. Paying for Demo-2 weapons on such an expensive frame is a total waste. When the game first came out, people mistakenly thought these were the kings of demo but it's false. Experience has now shown volume of E10 shots on cheap hulls is the king of demo. These Enyos are second rate demo units with a pathetic range to fight the tank battle. I would change their gun to be accuracy 2+ for a minor buff also. Even with these changes, the Enyo is a second rate unit but these small buffs might encourage some use, especially grouped with a Njord.

- Scourge Razorworms taken as Sinister Cargo cost 10 points instead of 25 points currently. At this cheap price, you might see some use for Sinister Cargo as there are just so many penalties for deploying Razorworms from Slayers or Tormentors.

- While thinking about Razorworms, make an explicit rule that allows transports with Flame weapons to move, fire those and still disembark infantry into the flamed buildings afterwards. It's very cinematic and should be possible IMO. ;)

- PHR Hyperions to cost 54 points, 5 pts cheaper. Did you know that mathematically, all single shot weapons do nothing 30% of the time? Yep, that's a one to hit and one to damage which equals 30% to do nothing. That's why I call all units with one shot weapons "heartbreakers".

- Shaltari Ocelots to cost 90 points, 5 pts cheaper.

- UCM Scimitars to cost 45 points. You get the idea.

- I would knock a few points off all non Shaltari APCs. There are so many downsides to taking APCs in medium dropships. But not Shaltari Havens. Those are a bargain for the utility they give Shaltari in getting objectives and winning games.

- The PHR Janus has hidden strengths but is limited with a F arc unlike it's counterparts. Its vaunted armour of 7 is actually tissue paper. Reduce cost to 20 points.

- Oh, how could I almost forget the poor old Scourge Corsair? A failed fighter-bomber concept. I could write a whole page on how poor this FM is. Change the current weapon profile to Accuracy 2+ but take away AA. Add second profile: E8, SH2, Ac 4+ AA. Both get Alt-1. Finally it can fight air units effectively and also have a meaningful ground attack. The points should probably go up to 78 as it would be significantly better than a UCM Archangel.


FINAL NOTE: All Famous Commanders should have the effort put into play balancing them so that they can always be taken! God, so lazy to create models and then not test their rules! These wonderful models should be playable. But maybe that could be done later down the track?
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Suzume

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 3:47 pm

I don't think this thread is the 'laundry list' thread, but I could be wrong.

That said, I look forward to 2.0 and the opportunity to push the game to the next level.
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Gauntlet

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Re: Dropzone Commander Version 2!

PostFri Jul 21, 2017 5:01 pm

I really look forward to DZC 2.0!

I'd really like to see a way, in which Commanders modify your army more... in such a way, that you can open the game up for even more units, without having them all directly compete. Some games for example have different army types, that simply belong to the same faction. Its similar to how you split Resistance into Allied and Feral... more of that, for all the factions, will allow for more diversity, without having to invent factions (which is also cool).

I could list a dozen other things, but most have been mentioned already.
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