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2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit tweaks

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stormbringer

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2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit tweaks

PostWed Aug 16, 2017 9:01 pm

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is Hawk will do some unit rebalancing as part of 2nd edition? (Partly because the new rules may require some units to be tweaked; and partly because it's a chance to get those rarely used units back on the table)

The purpose of this thread is for us to all enjoy some "realistic" wish-listing for some of our own less loved units- and not another chance to slag off other faction's units (glass houses is all I'm saying!). And, hey, maybe Hawk might take notice of any sensible suggestions?

Okay, so I know the main thread had a few suggestions in it (before it became CQB city!) and I appreciate we cannot know how 2nd ed rules will indirectly effect our units- but I am all for some daydreaming in the meantime!

So, let me kick things off with a few shaltari suggestions:-

Tomahawk move&fire distance to 9"
Samurai down to 15 points
Leopard twin e12 up to 12" range (keep 3rd e12 at 9")
Ocelot down to 90 points
Crocodile a HQ with 9" move (like WC-Isis special character) and down to 100 points


What are others hoping for their factions?
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Gonefishing

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostThu Aug 17, 2017 5:52 pm

stormbringer wrote:So, let me kick things off with a few shaltari suggestions:-


You forgot putting the price up on Firstborn Storm! :P

Ahem.....(moving swiftly on).....

For me there are a couple of things I would love to see for PHR (with the First 3 all being linked together really).

1. The Janus. I love the Janus, the model is fantastic. I want to play the Janus, I really, really do. Their is just one slight problem, it's massively overpriced and really not very good in game. 6 Janus with Tritons are 192 pts (and if you walk them on they will do nothing), If you want to actually arm the Tritons 222 Pts....Its too expensive. Especially when competing for a slot with Valkyries (and Sirens in the available Exotic slot). They so rarely hit the table and I'm itching to use them.

2. Tritons - Please Arm them! All PHR players use them (with our Infantry costs and speed Neptune's and Juno's are not a feasible way of transporting Infantry), yet no one ever really arms them...why, because at PHR prices that additional 10Pts counts for a lot, and it does not buy you a whole lot of bang. It would be nice If the Tritons could occasionally do something other than hide / land in front of things all game though...

3.Immortals (proud holders of the DZC award for most inaccurate name) - these guys really need to come down in price substantially if there rules don't change, or they need a rules change to make them worth the current cost - because they die far to easily currently (falling rubble, flame weapons, CQB against anything but the most basic troops), and are only marginally cheaper than Valk's and Sirens - so why would you ever choose them over these options (other than the almost obligatory 1 unit?).

4. A new AA unit. Effectively we only have 3 which is the lowest in the game..(Janus and Immortals don't count), which leave us with the Athena (great, but the attack run rules will change that), The Helios - great, but support only and has a whole lot of competition....and the Phobos - Good...but basically a mono-role turret. Something slightly nippier (that isn't in a support slot), or even a decent AA Troops option would be great, or giving something a secondary fire option like the Janus (or even just making Janus good) would be really a wish of mine.

And finally, as a fast PHR player, my pet hate (which may be my opinion alone, but as its my wish list I'm going for it!).

5. The Standard Slot. Menchit - NO, Ares - a less emphatic lowercase no but not great in todays game, and Phobos - OK - not bad, diametrically against a fast PHR list though as they are pretty much turrets for all intents and purposes. Every time I build a list I end up begrudgingly taking something from this section....and I don't want them, most of the time its the Battlegroup support slot it opens that garners the biggest point spend (or I buy a single 63pt walk on Phobos just to fill the mandatory slot). I would love for Apollos to be a standard choice, or for another AA unit of some sort (which I think PHR need), anything really just to take something different!

Wish list away ;) (But fingers crossed for the Janus!).
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Castro

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostThu Aug 17, 2017 7:43 pm

With the release of some of the gen 2 rules - you might be a little happier. Apparently you can fire right after you drop with a +2 AC modifier - which would make PHR much more mobile.

Hell - it even helps the menschits as you can drop and still now fire!
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stevefamine

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostThu Aug 17, 2017 8:23 pm

UCM

- Design UCM Infantry to work more effectively. Maybe buff the rocket launcher or make it have an option for an AA version? I'd like to run larger infantry lists. Pretorians with some type of quick escape or advantage to finding objectives.
- Make Bears usable
- Praetorian Sniper Teams help out FAC / give them a rule that will make players purchase them and a slight buff
- Nerf Ferrum - I feel as if I need to take one every game
- Katanas have a slight nerf vs structures / building demo
- Different options for dropships? Missiles, Mgun, Small Rail Gun, Extra Armor, Smokes, and so on
- Common cards relating to rerolling hits with single shot Broadsword/Sabres or having them have multiple shots


Scourge

- Corsairs are a meme
- I barely play Scourge
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Gauntlet

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostFri Aug 18, 2017 12:02 am

I think some of these concerns will be addressed by rule changes.

For example, the UCM infantry and missile launcher... well, you can now shoot after deploying! So perhaps it will be feasible (though still quite desperate) to deploy a infantry squad or two in front of a remaining Hunter say, and blast it!

Katana is being nerfed by virtue of only Demo doing additional damage to buildings.

All APCs now give a search bonus to objectives for their squad (awesome!).



Agreed we need to buff Praetorians, Janus, Praetorian Snipers, Immortals!

I think we should nerf the Ferrum (perhaps something clever, like, they can't act as a Scout and shoot in the same activation).

I also think we need to change "Rare" status or have a Super-rare status for certain units.


Biggest change I hope for, is that Flame targets a Squad inside a building, not a individual unit, so that we can just roll all our dice at once, and not waste dice/casualties on a single base/etc.
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A Horrible Spider

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 4:55 am

--UCM--
Drop prices for Legionnaires, Praetorians, and Praetorian Snipers. Maybe down to 24, 43 and 30 per base respectively. Why bother making filthy infantrymen better when you can just get more of them? That's the real UCM way.

Hazard Suits back to E7 so there's a reason to use their guns again (I assume they still won't be able to search and fire).

Give Albatross 3+ accuracy on its HMGs. It isn't much, but I'd like "The Flying Porcupine" to actually kill an infantryman on occasion. And while you're at it might as well do the same to Bear machine guns. Otherwise they seem like they'll be helped by some big universal rule changes. Oh, and make missile pod attachments the same price for all dropships.

Kodiak getting some sort of ability to place its command radius elsewhere. That would fit into its role of hiding at the back like a real hero and give it a nice little nudge up towards Phoenix's level.

Ferrum needs to be reworked. Not just nerfed, changed on a fundamental level. It's in a situation where as long as it's even a little bit useful, it will be autoinclude. Much like the Panther it's not good because of what you can do with it, but because of what it forces your enemy to do. Ferrum locks down the entire board and means any AA vulnerability can and will be capitalized on, either by the drones themselves or by gunships following the drones that ate all your reaction fire.
Personally I'm a proponent of making the drones more individually powerful/tough, but far less disposable. Also removing scout, because they don't need it and they're just better at it than everyone else.

Make Gladius and Scimitar the real heroes I know they can be. Gladius shouldn't live in fear of crits, and Scimitar shouldn't live in fear of... Crossbows? I dunno, they've both been left behind in a big way. I'm not even sure what should be done, I just know something needs to be done.

--Scourge--
I don't play them as much, but:
Buff Desolator so it doesn't kill its friends so much.
Nerf Overseer so it isn't a permanent fixture in every list.
Remove Aged Ones from the game, or at least completely change everything about them so they don't do a crappy job of filling the already bloated CQB role while removing everything that makes normal Warriors good.
Give Razorworms DF.
Give Slayer and Tormentor A9.
Maybe give Tormentor a cool alt fire mode or something. Scourge doesn't need flame much, but it certainly doesn't need mono-role dedicated flame.
Nerf Destroyers. 5+ passive save that only works against E6 shots or below, much like Warsuit active countermeasures.
Nerf Eviscerators by proxy. Maybe let them keep the 4+ save or give them a 6+ dodge or something. Or drop the price a bit.
Buff Invaders. Aside from the universal APC fixes, maybe give it something that lets it crash into a wall and vomit infantry directly into CQB or something. The thing looks like a missile and seems to have a front-facing door, might as well put it to use.
Ac3+ on Corsair. Easy fix for the worst piece of absolute garbage around.

--PHR--
Barely play them at all, but:
Fix Janus. Infiltrate has been suggested and I like the idea. 2+ accuracy for missile would be very nasty for AA and would really make it that premium scout it wants to be.
Fix Taranis. This is really just a case of playing around with numbers until it's good.
Stop Helios from ruining everything. 2versatile4me
Make Valkyries less mandatory.
Give Sirens DF.
Put normal Menchit in support with its A2 variant, possibly give a secondary function or 2+ accuracy to that machine gun arm.
Make Junos valid. E9 on the cannon version, and... something... for the machine gun version. I really don't know, the Juno A2 is such a dumpster fire even in concept that I'm not sure what to do with it.
Make Immortals cheaper and/or better at AT.
I agree with the other guy, make arming Tritons a better option. Another AA option in the faction would be cool too.
Possibly put Phobos in support. As long as it's in standard, it will keep stealing Ares' thunder. Another AT standard choice could come in to replace it, maybe one of those rumoured type-5s or something.
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Bistromatic

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 10:32 am

A buddy made me pull out my Ferrum rework idea from a year ago, might as well post it here and see if i can get some feedback on it.

Reasoning:
If there’s any unit that screams command and control it’s the ferrum, why would you admiral not be on the giant aircraft carrier that’s stuffed full of sensors and scout drones?

I think it would also be interesting if it was focused on buffing and debuffing instead of shooting everything. And if the drones had a limited range it would actually be interesting to maneuver.

I would like the drones to be able to either affect enemy units or friendly units, hopefully leading to some interesting choices. Additionally, we have several things that affect accuracy already but only one unit exists that affects range as far as i remember so why not focus on that?

Buff/Debuff on friendly or enemy Units gives us a few different options.

Attached to an Enemy:
Buff - Increase friendly range when targeting this Unit
Debuff - Decrease enemy Range

Attached to an Enemy:
Buff - Increase friendly range
Debuff - Decrease enemy range when targeting this unit.



Ferrum:
Keep statline but change category to Command

Can launch 4 drones a turn. Otherwise the same

Starsprites:
Keeps Basic Statline
Change missiles to be identical to the dropship ones

Easy Target: if your fire at them you gain strafe

ECM/ECCM Suite:
At any point of its movement, if a drone is base to base with another unit and within 24” of the Ferrum it can activate its automatic tracking. From this point on it is assumed to be directly over the unit in question at the standard height. It follows along if the target unit moves. It no longer counts for formation.

As long as the target unit is within 24” of the Ferrum the following effects apply:

If it is a friendly unit:
Enemy units targeting this unit decrease their R(C) by 3”

If it is an enemy unit:
Friendly units targeting this unit increase their R(C) by 3”


The above is not meant to be a final rules text. I’d be happy about ideas for alternative buffs/debuffs or combinations thereof.
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InspGadgt

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 1:42 am

stevefamine wrote:UCM

- Design UCM Infantry to work more effectively. Maybe buff the rocket launcher or make it have an option for an AA version? I'd like to run larger infantry lists. Pretorians with some type of quick escape or advantage to finding objectives.
- Make Bears usable
- Praetorian Sniper Teams help out FAC / give them a rule that will make players purchase them and a slight buff
- Nerf Ferrum - I feel as if I need to take one every game
- Katanas have a slight nerf vs structures / building demo
- Different options for dropships? Missiles, Mgun, Small Rail Gun, Extra Armor, Smokes, and so on
- Common cards relating to rerolling hits with single shot Broadsword/Sabres or having them have multiple shots


Scourge

- Corsairs are a meme
- I barely play Scourge


UCM needs a lot more love in general. Taking on the multi-point models of the Shaltari and PHR that have really good armor, good saving throws, and healing abilities is pretty much impossible in a straight up fight. Really the only hope UCM has in these fights is to take objectives and try to not fight as much as possible. The Ferrum is one of the only units that can do something against these factions but even then is pretty difficult with the high amount of AA they have.
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wario

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 6:49 am

Nerfing the Ferrum because it is an auto include is weird.

I would like to have an upgrade option for the bears to get a missle pod or some kind of AA (stats like wolverines?).
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Wario
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Berjiz

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Re: 2nd Edition: Your wish list for YOUR faction's unit twea

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 10:09 pm

Five battle groups instead of six. The sixth one usually mostly becomes filler to get the sixth group and usually it's one squad per battlegroup and in some cases two. Having five would increase the number of viable builds.

Increase the severity of hot landing zone rule. It almost never matters as it is now. The range should apply to the units themselves as well, not only the transport.

Remove scout from the Ferrun drones. Give too much easy sphere of influence and makes the other scout units a bit pointless. Ferrun probably needs some other changes too.

No attack runs on first turn and don't put a lot of randomness into the deployment of them

Drive one uses transport capacity so if a unit is driven one then the coresponding transport capacity has to stay of the board for the first turn.

Nerf the Overseer. It's too much of a auto include unit

Fix all those units mentioned by others here in this thread
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