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Attention Commanders!

Tell the world your Dropzone related trials and tribulations!
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Egge

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 9:50 am

I also think that 40k is very dangerous. Without any information or new stuff for DZC it dies. we have been trying to keep it alive but just can't keep it up.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 2:07 pm

I think that's to a huge extend a player based problem not a company based one... I really do not get why a huge chunk of players needs new releases all the time to be interested in a particular game. DZC and DFC are both great games and you can do a lot of stuff to keep the interest without new releases needed.
I would agree if we would not see anything new over the course of a whole year but that's just not the case. People need to be more patient and just be a little bit creative.
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stormbringer

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 4:54 pm

I agree with your sentiment, Shikatanai, but that's how gaming is these days. Many people just chase the next "Shiny" thing. I am not justifying it, but it is what it is.

We can shout from the sidelines ( "The wind rages, but still the mountain cannot move " ) ........but ultimately hawk/ TTC have to recognise the facts and do something to take the interest away from ( / compete with ) 40k, infinity, Xwing etc.
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Gonefishing

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostWed Dec 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Well, in terms of being a fun, challenging, tactical game to play - I think Dropzone Commander kicks 40K's ass. It's a far superior game (new 40K from the few games I have watched does not look particularly tactical or interesting, although I have been assured its "fun" even if I have 0 interest in going back to it). Where 40K kicks Dropzone's ass, is in game support (constant releases), ease of opponents/games (GW is the gateway drug for most tabletop gamers out there, and quite a few of us do still have 40K armies knocking around) obtainability, (everyone stocks it).

Add that to the fact that GW seems to have got their act together and are now once again selling and promoting games rather than "collections", and have dumped the horrible, horrible direction they moved in for 6th and 7th - and 40K is in the resurgence again. The last proper releases for DZC meanwhile were in August 2016 I think? It would be nice for it to have some love and change things up a bit, because that keeps things interesting. So yeah, 40K is going to garner alot of interest at the moment. DZC is never going to compete with the GW machine, but in many ways it does not need to - its a totally different and superior game that will always have its advocates and players. But it does need to keep those players engaged and supported, which is where DZC falls down at the moment (imo).
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Nobody

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostThu Dec 14, 2017 2:02 am

The big thing is that new releases help to generate positive buzz and gets people to talk about the game, especially publicly where it'd help get outside people interested. It used to be fun to see posts about stuff on forums like Dakkadakka (like when they did they advent calendar spoilers for phase 2 and DFC) and conjecture.

The meta at this point is stale for DZC, so there's just not that much to discuss. The notification on 2nd edition caused quite a bit of (heated) discussion, but that died down once everybody realized we didn't have the full picture and wouldn't for months. I still love the game and want to play it more, but it's virtually dead here and getting people interested is difficult when you get somebody to take a look at the game and they go online to look into buying it only to find out it's out of stock almost everywhere.

DFC has beautiful models and is fun to play, but it's still dealing with negative buzz from people missing their pledges to the point where any conversation involving DFC generally includes at least one person mentioning they'd soured on Hawk because of missing pledges/wave 2 stuff.
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SwordOfJustice

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostSat Dec 16, 2017 9:33 am

Agreed, without new content Hawk games are sunk. Simple as that, IMHO.

I would suggest to Troll Trader to focus on DZC version 2 with the following as a focus:

- Extensive play testing. Air power needs to be finalised. I like the proposal for how it will be in V2 but it needs a lot of testing.

- Proof read the rulebook, Mr Traffic James. LOL

- Take on board players' feedback and improve the layout of the rulebook. I hate the way Hawk sets out its rulebooks. I can never find what I want in the heat of the moment during a game, which speaks volumes about the way it is laid out. For example, put all the movement rules together and include terrain. We're mostly experienced gamers so we don't need a baby section which just shows you how to move and shoot with the additional rules that affect movement and shooting later on.

- Improve the dud units. I believe V2 will do that. I've seen the beta v2 rules and the changes to units looked good. E.g. the Taranis will finally be comparable to the UCM Longbow.

- Be very careful when rebalancing Shaltari given that other factions will get shared dropships. Shaltari always had a lot of powers that were never costed, like their transported units not being inside their transports which is a significant power, if you think about it. They had fast transports with low armour but 5+ shields, then also had them in a shared pool, the ability to pop cargo in one and out another across the table, plus the cargo be immune to crashing. It was all too much for the cost when you added it together IMHO.

- Include some exciting new units in that v2 release. I'll post some ideas in a separate post.
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Yeager Wolfmire

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 3:27 am

SwordOfJustice wrote:I'll post a few thoughts here to generate some discussion. Feel free to move this into its own thread.

I hope we will see stability, accurate follow through, and steady releases in 2018 and beyond. Wargamers are impulsive and need regular ongoing releases that excite them.

Here are some of my thoughts that might lift up Dropzone and make it a more exciting game.


- Put the effort in to play balance special characters then make them official! Goodness, the models take production effort and people like and buy them. Then they can't play with them in official games? It's not a good way.

You want the game to have as much as possible to catch and excite a wargamer's imagination and get them playing with those models.

I mention play balance because the special commanders are way out of whack. The Scourge flying commander with 6 E10 shots is way OP and the UCM Ferrum commander gets a re-roll to hit on one drone. Seriously? :?

Recommend Troll Trader discuss with Dave and play balance all special commanders then every six months, release a special unit a character can take, with perhaps an alternate lower powered version that you can take without the character. This would be exciting and interesting.

- Develop the game universe, and not with "Powerpoint-like" campaign updates we've seen in the previous rulebooks. "Day +147 We have made progress in the campaign blah blah". Sorry, but in my opinion it's quite boring and a missed chance to develop the game universe in an exciting way.

Make it more real, more living, more detailed. Name the UCM fleets and famous legions. Name some famous formations in other factions. Start making up more characters in the game universe. Flesh out the game universe. How is trade going in the colonies? What is UCM society like? What is happening with the countless millions of non combat Scourge that have been captured? Follow up on how the special characters who have been released so far are involved in the war. The UCM must've captured many Scourge micro fusion reactors and anti gravity units by now, even with self destruct mechanisms. Are they progressing their technology?

And so on.

What made Games Workshop into the giant it is now? Art, imagination, emotional hooks based on historical arche types. Now GW has built up a vast, exciting and bankable IP.

Can anyone who plays Dropzone/Dropfleet name even one famous formation in the game world? Yet, anyone who's played 40K can reel off dozens of chapters of Space Marines, factions, special characters and points of lore in that universe.

The artwork Hawk created by Patrice was mostly amazing and I would like more of that along with serious development of the universe.

The best part of the last rulebook was the exciting story developments where we see the PHR have a mole on the top UCM military council. The development of the game story is a great feature of the Hawk games. We see the war progressing and the Scourge have now found the United Colonies and counter attacked. This is excellent and exactly what I'm advocating.


- I know Dave is against wargear, but some wargear is a way to spend those last few points and personalise your army. And wargamers love that! I want my force to be special and just the way I want it. Forming an emotional connection to your models is important to at least some wargamers, so it works for part of the market. I think this is also part of what made GW into a giant. Some wargear can bring a faction's theme to life and allows for that personalisation.


- To further that aspect of personalisation, if we see some of the famous units of the game universe defined, then players might start to make forces based on that official canon. It certainly happened in GW games.


- I would like to see some "cracks" appear in the unity of the PHR and UCM, where there are dissenting political forces which could potentially form splinter forces. This would then give a game universe reason for "blue on blue" fights on the tabletop.


- I'd like to see the Fauna released as models and a well balanced tournament mission created that use them. Then perhaps a special and exciting Feral Resistance character could have them as part of an army list. And maybe Scourge could use some infested fauna as throw away shock troops.


Anyway, just some thoughts to start a discussion. :)

Cheers,
Sword

I feel there needs to be an on page news bored. Not just putting news through here and on twitter. I love this game, But I'm having anxiety over the fact that you guys don't talk much. Makes you look dead. You should have SOMETHING on the main home page of Hawk Wargames to let new comers know that you guys are around. Hell, let the talons post things or something.
Death is written in these pages, and I'm the author
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Jam800

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Re: Attention Commanders!

PostSat Jan 13, 2018 9:50 am

The latest Q and A that are on the community Facebook pages suggest that a new website is being worked on. It isn't clear if the Hawk sites as we know them will exist anymore or if the new website will be an update to these ones.

Despite TTCOMBAT's early promises for better communication, I haven't really seen this in direct support of the community yet and I think this is a major failing on their part quite frankly
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