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Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

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lofwyrkp

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Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 7:59 am

I've noticed that quite a few (if not all) lists now include walk on units, due to the fact that the army list creator is unwilling to pay "the drop ship tax" for that unit.

A possible solution would be to treat the walk on units as if they were coming on from reserve, just as if they were fast movers. i.e . 6+ for turn 1, 4+ for turn 2, 2+ the rest of the game.

This would account for the difficulty of getting to the battle zone after being dropped at a safe distance.

Thoughts?
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Lorn

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 am

That would certainly encourage the use of Drops ships and personally I would not be against more Drop ships on the battlefield (or better a reason to take them).

Though any such rule would have to consider Shalatari, not a big deal in your example as you could simply restrict drive on Shaltari the same way. I also assume Drop ship = Transport so hovercraft count.


Though this would have some balance implications, at least for me a main reason to take drive on units is to shoot at buildings in the first turn, which you could not do anymore. So unless this reserve rule also affects aircraft (which makes little sense) they would suddenly become prime T1 building demo.
The perfect solution would be to allow units to start the game "dismounted" so effectively walk on even if they have a transport, so even if you have Drop ship you would not be forced to start the game on it but could choose to walk on and use it later. There though Shaltari would be troublesome to integrate, taken your suggestion into account.

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SwordOfJustice

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 11:56 am

Lorn wrote:That would certainly encourage the use of Drops ships and personally I would not be against more Drop ships on the battlefield (or better a reason to take them).

Though any such rule would have to consider Shalatari, not a big deal in your example as you could simply restrict drive on Shaltari the same way. I also assume Drop ship = Transport so hovercraft count.


Though this would have some balance implications, at least for me a main reason to take drive on units is to shoot at buildings in the first turn, which you could not do anymore. So unless this reserve rule also affects aircraft (which makes little sense) they would suddenly become prime T1 building demo.
The perfect solution would be to allow units to start the game "dismounted" so effectively walk on even if they have a transport, so even if you have Drop ship you would not be forced to start the game on it but could choose to walk on and use it later. There though Shaltari would be troublesome to integrate, taken your suggestion into account.


That would be my preferred change. Allow units with dropships to dismount if you want.
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Egge

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 12:35 pm

I could imagine a rule stating that transports that carries something or pure scouts automatically enter turn 1 and may shoot. All other units may enter turn 1 but may not shoot or they roll a 4+ and if successfully they may enter and shoot turn 1. If not they enter on 2+ in turn 2 or if not successfull then enter automatically turn 3.

That way you make a choice of guaranteed enter turn 1 or risk both being able to enter until turn 3. Of course some units need to change in points but I think it is much more encouraging to take dropships.
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lofwyrkp

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 5:59 pm

I should have thought of hovercraft! but yeah, if you don't take a transport, you have to dice to see what turn you arrive.

As for the Shaltari, my simple ruling would be no drive on! If you want it in the battle, you must gate it in. So either buy more gates, or accept that some of your units aren't going to arrive until turn 2.

Still gives the hedgehogs an edge ish, but I can't think of an better answer.

As for building demo from turn 1, maybe that's something that has to go to make this idea work? However Lorn's suggestion is a good compromise.

The beauty of DZC is the apparent simplicity of the core rules, and that's something I'm striving for, less exceptions, and more straightforward rules.
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Drcox

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 7:05 pm

I think that you pay for the dropship in the units listing so for example, some will be simple

3 Sabers + condor XXX points.
6 Sabers + 2 Condors XXX points
9 Sabers + 3 Condirs XXX points of an Albatross for YYY points

If you have a combination of Sabers and also Rapiers/Katana/Fireblade in a battlegroup which reaches 9 vehicles you may swap their 3 condors for an Albatross for Z points

Still relatively simple but keeps the dropships as part of the unit.

Now there may be some where you get the option to not take a drop ship (thinking of Ferrum or maybe Taranis, where the fluff perhaps supports a lack of dropship.

Shaltari you probably need some rule stating for every X mass points in the force you must take a minimum of Y gates.
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Egge

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 03, 2017 9:11 pm

I don't think the costs of dropships are so dramatically bad. If we take a look at invasion there are usually a hefty lot of dropships in the top armies. But decreasing the validity of non-transports effective shooting turn 1 would help.
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Novus

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostThu Feb 09, 2017 11:22 pm

I think the necessity of transports can be fixed in the mission structure. No need to require them outright. I know that since CL's are part of the game, I list transports far more than I used to. (Now, if PHR had transports with the same utility/value as the Resistance, I'd never leave home without them)

I'd rather see demo get toned down a bit. That single tactic is just too useful (and somewhat boring to play with/against).
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 7:51 am

Egge wrote:But decreasing the validity of non-transports effective shooting turn 1 would help.

You're showing your pro/only-Scourge chauvinism, sir. You don't like drive on demo because you can't do it, so you don't want any other faction to be able to do it. That's not a reasonable argument, IMO.

At the recent LVO, my list was "demo-capable", but not "pure demo", and in Round 1 (Survey and Control) and Round 2 (Crucible) it was a key factor in my victories. However, Round 3 was Bunker Assault, in which I struggled and ultimately lost, as I was prepared for. So I think in a tournament setting the proper selection of missions by the TO is essential to balancing out Turn 1 Demo focus so that if you rely on it too much, you suffer in some of the rounds for it...

Having said that, I favor rules adjustments that encourage the use of dropships, but I don't think that every ground unit should be forced to take a dropship -- the Apollo and Hera are prime examples of this, as are the Taranis and Thor, for different reasons.

I also think that, with regard to Shaltari, you should recognize if they have taken too few flying gates and should aggressively target them in order to neuter their mobility as quickly as possible. In that regard, taking an adequate amount of mobile AA is a key consideration when building your list and you are likely to face hedgehogs at some point during the tournament. "Requiring" gates, or dropships, will reduce the flexibility of listbuilding options, and result in more sameness in lists, less variety of lists, and make the game much more boring, IMO.

Providing a discount for certain configurations, on the other hand, with some flexible options, could encourage more dropships to turn up in some lists... In other words, make it a points advantage to bring more dropships rather than just a mobility capability advantage...
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samspace

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Re: Putting the Drop back into Dropzone

PostFri Feb 17, 2017 7:53 pm

Let me throw a random idea out there. I know this has been discussed before but not in the context of "What would make me take more Dropships."

Allow me to shoot before or after deployment. Give me a penalty like a +3Ac when shooting after deployment to balance it out.


My theory is that it would cause more people to bring dropships because it allows my to perform quick-strike flanky moves. I could pickup a unit, move him to an enemy flank, drop him off and hope for a luck shot.

But resistance already have that ability.
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