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DZC CQB question

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JJ_Shepard

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DZC CQB question

PostSat Feb 18, 2017 8:27 pm

I also posted this to my region's Dropzone community page, but last night a friend of mine and I were playing DZC, and on the third turn they activate their infantry battlegroup and move into a building housing a possible objective (we were playing Search), and in the following activation I send my braves in. So, next turn rolls around and he activates his infantry, flips over the objective, and then leaves on his APCs. We're still both new to the game so I didn't spend a lot of time digging through the rulebook, and allowed it, but am I right in assuming that in order to check the objective, he would have had to stick around in the building for at least one round of CQB? Could you also be sure to include a page number or quote from the rulebook with your explanation?
Thank you!
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ElectricPaladin

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostSat Feb 18, 2017 8:37 pm

You actually can't leave CQB. You're stuck until you flee, die, or win. Also, if you flee, you drop any objectives you were carrying. Check the rules on Page 34 -35 and 53.
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CheeseCake1128

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostSat Feb 18, 2017 9:38 pm

Something to bear in mind is that CQB doesn't commence till the Initiation phase of the next turn. If player A has infantry in a structure, and player B enters the structure with infantry of his own, then so long as player A hasn't already activated his infantry that turn he may still move them out of the building at no cost. However, come the next turn the CQB has commenced before anybody activates anything, so at that point any and all infantry in the building are stuck there till the CQB has finished (one side has lost all bases/had all bases flee the building).
In regards to objectives, if you flee the building as per stage 5 of CQB (Main rulebook pg.34), then the objective is left behind as Paladin said. If you hold an objective before the CQB has commended though, and haven't activated your infantry, then you may still leave the building with the objective with no penalties. :)

Try reading though pgs. 34-36 of the Main rulebook a few times and you should get to grips with it. (I say a few times as I'd say it's one of the more complicated elements of DzC and I know that I personally had to read it several times before it clicked. :P ) Hope this helps. :)
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Maninblue

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostSat Feb 18, 2017 10:57 pm

There are a few possible scenarios here. I'm not sure which you're referring to (Shepard or Cheese), so here's how each of them plays out (iirc).

#1
Turn 3 Infantry move in.
Turn 3 Braves move in.
Start of Turn 4, Braves and Infantry are locked in CQB (Infantry are defenders).
Turn 4 Infantry can search on their activation, but are trapped. If they leave they are counted as fleeing from CQB and so drop the objective in their haste.

#2
Turn 3 Infantry move in.
Turn 4 Braves move in.
Turn 4 Infantry find the objective and leave. No CQB is ever initiated - the Infantry escape before the Braves can pin them down.

#3
Turn 3, 2x Infantry squads move in.
Turn 3, 1x Braves squad moves in.
Start of Turn 4, Braves and Infantry are locked in CQB (Infantry are defenders).
Turn 4, Infantry can search on their activation. Because they have more squads than the attackers, he can allocate one squad to defend (We'll hold them off!) and the other squad can leave without penalty.
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JJ_Shepard

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostMon Feb 20, 2017 6:49 am

It was a search scenario, so all objective marks are flipped face down until revealed. He didn't find an objective, and extracted from the building without participating in CQB. He didn't find anything when he flipped over the objective at the start of the battlegroup's activation, but that's beside the point.
From what I understand, he couldn't have fled without participating because he's obligated to allocate one squad (at least) for each one of mine. In essence, he's stuck for at least one round of CQB, but afterwards that, is there anyway for him to leave the building other than failing a fortitude check? Can he choose to fail a fortitude check? Or is he really just stuck until one side is dead of the dice say it's time to leave?
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J.D. Welch

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostMon Feb 20, 2017 7:02 am

JJ_Shepard wrote:It was a search scenario, so all objective marks are flipped face down until revealed. He didn't find an objective, and extracted from the building without participating in CQB. He didn't find anything when he flipped over the objective at the start of the battlegroup's activation, but that's beside the point.
From what I understand, he couldn't have fled without participating because he's obligated to allocate one squad (at least) for each one of mine. In essence, he's stuck for at least one round of CQB, but afterwards that, is there anyway for him to leave the building other than failing a fortitude check? Can he choose to fail a fortitude check? Or is he really just stuck until one side is dead of the dice say it's time to leave?

If it is Maninblue's Example #1, he's stuck in CQB until it resolves, either by losing and failing a Fortitude check, losing by being wiped out, winning and you fail your Fortitude check, or winning by wiping you out.

The CQB is so intense, so all-consuming that you don't have the wherewithal to make a conscious decision to leave, until it's over or you've taken so many losses that your guys see that the better part of valor is to withdraw with whomever is left and fight another day. That's the fluff reason. Otherwise, it's a game mechanic to ensure that there is a risk/reward balance, and to make it worthwhile for the Aggressor to even go into a building where you are the Occupier -- if the Occupier could just leave whenever they wanted, there's no real point to CQB. This puts rules in place to allow the game to flow properly, and make the differences between Infantry units matter.
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JJ_Shepard

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Re: DZC CQB question

PostThu Feb 23, 2017 7:33 am

J.D. Welch wrote:If it is Maninblue's Example #1, he's stuck in CQB until it resolves, either by losing and failing a Fortitude check, losing by being wiped out, winning and you fail your Fortitude check, or winning by wiping you out.

The CQB is so intense, so all-consuming that you don't have the wherewithal to make a conscious decision to leave, until it's over or you've taken so many losses that your guys see that the better part of valor is to withdraw with whomever is left and fight another day. That's the fluff reason. Otherwise, it's a game mechanic to ensure that there is a risk/reward balance, and to make it worthwhile for the Aggressor to even go into a building where you are the Occupier -- if the Occupier could just leave whenever they wanted, there's no real point to CQB. This puts rules in place to allow the game to flow properly, and make the differences between Infantry units matter.


Is that because, according to page 35 on step 7 of CQB: "If there are aggressors and occupants left in the building (even if the ones allocated to repel the attack have been killed or have fled), then the CQB continues."

I kinda wish they spelled this all out a little more directly.
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