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The Games Workshop stock crash

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Jonny-M41A

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostMon Mar 03, 2014 1:20 am

Not sure what a circlejerk is? I think the point is GW are stuggling as they have lost a lot of players to other more balanced, cheaper or just more fun to play games.

Im sure cost of running stores may have had some effect but low sales has gotta have something to do with it.
We have around 30 players at our club and 5 or 6 years ago we nearly all played 40k of fantasy but now nobody does.
most of us would spend around £250 - £300 PA on the hobby so thats gotta be up to £3000 yearly lost sales just from our little club so if this is happening on a larger scale its gotta hurt stock prices.
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Ljevid

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostMon Mar 03, 2014 8:24 am

Jonny-M41A wrote:Not sure what a circlejerk is?


Well Jonny-M41A - Since English is not my mother tongue I’m not too sure what a circlejerk is either (but it feels kind of wrong to use the expressions circlejerk and mother tongue in the same sentence).

I think it describes the practice of males sitting in a circle and [censored] - so to speak an obscenity slightly out of context that is concerned with the fact that every Games Workshop related thread attracts scores of people who vent their frustration about GW pricing, sales practices and so on.

That way many threads - that carry GW in the title- soon transform into a ”Why I hate GW” support groups.

Shadowroamer doesn’t seem to agree and uses this slightly homophobic insult to describe said people who are of one mind and help each other “get off” while venting their frustration.

In case I got that wrong I hope there is a more experienced person who could describe that practice to us.

I hope I was able to help. ;)

Regards

Ljevid
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man ON fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...
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60mm

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostMon Mar 03, 2014 5:02 pm

Ljevid, you are thoroughly correct. :lol:
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shadowroamer

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostMon Mar 03, 2014 7:49 pm

Ljevid wrote:That way many threads - that carry GW in the title- soon transform into a ”Why I hate GW” support groups.

Shadowroamer doesn’t seem to agree and uses this slightly homophobic insult to describe said people who are of one mind and help each other “get off” while venting their frustration.


I agree wholeheartedly with the former part of your message, namely the devolution of practically any thread on practically any online wargaming forum, which mentions GW.

I fail to see how my comment was homophobic, I find that if men enjoy such acts with other men, then they should be free to perform them, so long as they keep it private between all parties involved.

My comment also does not intend to reflect the physical act of 'circlejerking', but rather what you accurately describe as 'people who are of one mind, venting their frustration.' At no point did I mention the (intended) outcome of the 'circlejerking' as 'getting off' as a group, or an individual. I prefer not to think of other men 'getting off'.

What I tried to achieve with my comment, was to break up the venting of frustrations in a sarcastic way. I consider sarcasm, when correctly applied, to be humorous, rather than insulting. I'm sorry if I did cause people to feel offended, by misapplying that sarcasm.

Perhaps a more constructive comment then, is this: I too believe that GW is mismanaging their business. It is causing them to lose my business, to the benefit of other companies such as Hawk Wargames.

However, the discontinuation of a line of products, while possibly very disappointing for many customers, doesn't look like an act of spite to me, nor an act of mismanagement. They lose an investment they have made in their IP by doing this, and the only reason I can see for doing it, is cutting losses. I'm merely an engineer, I've no idea how to run a business, but I am told it costs large amounts of money to have stock which won't sell. If the items did sell enough for GW to achieve a profit margin on the cost of production and the cost of stocking the items, they would eventually pay off that investment, and start making an even higher profit on these items.

If the items remain in stock without selling, they will continue to cost money, the investment will be lost, and the wisest decision, from a stockholders point of view, would be to cut the losses, and cancel the product line. Sad for the customers who did enjoy the products, but there were too few of them for the product to be viable.

However, this is a solid decision if you want your business to survive, and ultimately to grow, because the money held up in dead stock, could be used to invest in the company instead, and the more dead stock you keep around, the more money will be bled out of your company, which is ultimately, bad for everyone involved with GW. Bad for the customers, bad for the shareholders, bad for GWs employees.

Now, to get back to my comment regarding 'circlejerking', it is my opinion that venting your frustrations on a forum isn't going to achieve anything on GW's end, but what it is achieving, is that people who used to enjoy the hobby, are now seeing nothing but frustration surrounding it, and it is taking the joy out of something they used to love. I know it does for me, so I am sure there will be others.

Please, stop all the negativity surrounding the hobby. Direct your attention, your energy, elsewhere. Find a way to enjoy the hobby without involving GW. Lets all just have fun again, doing the things we love, and not let one company ruin it for us. So what if GW goes down? Are you going to stand on the deck of a sinking ship, crying about your wet feet, until it is rotting on the bottom of the ocean? Please, let it go, and lets approach our hobby in a positive way again.

TLDR: So what if GW is dumb? Lets have fun instead of whining about it!
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Jonny-M41A

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostTue Mar 04, 2014 12:44 am

Elfface wrote:So, it's not exactly a secret that GW has fairly anti-consumer business practices, and it seems to be coming back to bite them.

On the one hand, it's good to see the market punish companies that don't treat their customers right. On the other, GW is still the big player in wargames, and it would be a shame to lose them altogether.


I was just giving an example of what was stated in the original post of a customer that does not feel they have been treated right.
I see what has happened to games workshop as a positive thing as it has opened up a lot of new sales for the companys that do seem to care about treating the customers well.
I love 40k and fantasy, the models are cool and the background is amazingly huge and detailed with a good rule system.
With the disscontinuation of an existing GW Army it would cost them nothing to allow the continued use of the existing models/rules/codex/army book.
Im not as synical as some of my friends who belive GW stops producing or removes/changes options in an Army just to force you to buy new stuff.
It was more the fact that you are suddenly just not allowed to use any of it once it is discontinued in store games or tornys with practically no prior notice.
Seems a little harsh is all and as the first post stated about GW not treating its customers right it seemed like a good place to discuss this.
This is the only gaming forum I have been on as I am quite a new internet user so I can't comment about what happens on other ones but did not want to be negative about gaming, just venting.

Anywhoo laughed my arse off when I realised what a circle jerk was, some great attempts at suttle explanations thanks. :lol:
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purplehoob

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostThu Jul 31, 2014 10:16 am

I feel quite sad watching the results of this.

I was a long term 40k player, the term "was" being used in a past term.

It feels like kicking a puppy sometimes watching other forums, personally I went from frothing 40kplayer. Tournaments, Warhammer World and buying nearly everything they produced through to hating the company and now I am just Meh.

I read stuff about them but in reality I just don't care anymore. I realised long ago that I wasn't really the customer they wanted, which is fine because they stopped producing stuff I wanted to buy.

I have moved on and it looks like so have many other people. I will feel a bit sad if they take another hit and have to downsize again, I don't think GW will go away anytime soon but for me personally I am past the point of really caring.

Ok part of me a small part still cares otherwise I wouldn't be posting this but life goes on I still play games just not GW games and I have DZC to scratch my gaming itch.
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Khealos

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostSun Aug 03, 2014 1:00 am

I cut my teeth on wargaming with GW. Necromunda was my first game, then I got roped into 40K 3rd Edition. It was often the social aspect for me, meeting friends and showing off models. I'm one of "those" people who cannot play with unpainted models.

I lost interest in 40K but moved onto Fantasy. I had to drop out due to schedule but after I tried to get back in I just didn't like the way 40K was going. Plus It got really old pulling sometimes over 100 models out to play. I love my Nids but I doubt I'll ever play with them again. Fantasy is the same - I don't feel like pulling out "Blocks"of models. I was looking at the new Ironbreaker models for the dwarves and they are gorgeous. However $50 for 10, and you need at least 20 to have a decent block.

A friend introduced me to DZC and after watching 2 games I was hooked. I don't think GW is going to go away any time soon but I have a feeling fantasy is about to be severely pruned back as 40K outsells it something like 4 to 1.
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JB11

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostSun Aug 03, 2014 1:59 am

purplehoob wrote:...It feels like kicking a puppy sometimes watching other forums...


It's not just other forums. Unfortunately when you're a publicly listed company your failures also get covered in the mainstream media too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... -good.html
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pilgrim

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostSun Aug 03, 2014 7:32 pm

I think the impact of GW on wargaming is often overrated, particularly on sites like ours.

The historical branch of wargaming was doing fine before GW arrived, and will continue to do so if GW does do a Swan Dive.

It is natural to assume because you are an GW player or an ex GW player and your friends are too, then that is what is the norm. Of course it is the norm within your group, but not necessarily elsewhere. I would assume many if not most players here are ex GW, but I think that is because the trend away from GW is in easy steps, so players look for a (for instance) 40K replacement or a similar game, they're unlikely to jump from 40K to Napoleonics - this is particularly ironic in that many 40K games I watched may as well have been Napoleonics due to the short weapon ranges and massed blocks of troops :-) .

It is also a fairly high probability that historical gamers will not be particularly interested in GW games, partly because the rules mechanics are very simple, and dare I say old fashioned, and partly because as a general rule GW games are rather expensive to play.

There has been of course a couple of attempts to bridge the gap and bring GW players into historical gaming, FoW and Warhammer Ancients Battles for instance. FoW tries to bring mechanics that are familiar to GW players into WW2, and also tries to bring the GW business model with the regular need to revise and rebuy books etc. I find that a little annoying and tedious. WHAB tried a different route of modifying the basic WHFB rules to suit Ancients, but ultimately failed or was at least shelved - I suspect because rather than expanding WHFB into another period it actually showed WHFB players that there are high quality historical miniatures available at a fraction of the price GW were charging for their models, and once that cat is out of the bag it wont be easy to get it back in.

It's not something I would be very keen to put hard numbers on, but in my "Historical" gaming group I would say about 25% actually started in GW and the remaining 75% are traditional historical gamers. Some of the historical gamers may have played GW games (I have fond memories of BloodBowl and old style Space Hulk) but they are not really GW gamers by any stretch.

GW going bust stories are pretty much cyclical. I'm sure they will survive, but if they dont, the end of the wargaming world it isnt.

Cheers
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purplehoob

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Re: The Games Workshop stock crash

PostSun Aug 17, 2014 4:09 pm

Personally I don't think that GW are going to go bust, however I do think they will shrink back and become more UK insulated.

That might be a good thing as it allows some smaller more agile companies to get a hold and open up peoples minds to new experiences and games.

Dont get me wrong I started on GW a long time ago and all my friends started playing GW as well. I liked the universe and the whole games thing.

But they dropped the ball only concentrating on three core games (two now if you believe the rumours about LOTR).

Before you had a choice to continue within the GW universe with games like GorkaMorka Epic and Mordhiem. Now its a case of 40k or Fantasy or nothing with them.

To me their biggest mistake is not their prices,(although that's another choice discussion) its that they dont give gamers more choice.

When I got bored of 40k ten years ago, I went to Epic. When I recently got bored of 40k I went to Dropzone Commander. I may never go back, this will be the downfall in my experience people like choice, or at least the illusion of choice.

:geek:
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