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Re: I hate warmachine....

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:07 pm
by Gridloc
I play both warmachine and DZC. Also was a 40k and fantasy player. I love warmachine still, it is not a game for new players, i always tell people, that to really enjoy it, they need to start off with another tabletop game and move into warmachine. Thats because its designed to be competitive, as such experience plays huge part. Both in lists (which many are net lists) and then execution. This leads to new players losing over and over. Now that happens in nearly all tabletop games but more so in warmachine.

Is it bad that people then find they don't like the game and leave? For the company, yes, for the players, no... Warmachine players are playing for competition, not story telling so if you want that you will not have fun. Warmachine players don't want complainers about you being a rule lawyer because the whole game centers around tight rules and cards that play within them. Is there power creep, sometimes but the company is very reactive and see errata quickly after releases if the public points out flaws. Look at double circle stone teleport, this was around since edition started, but as more models were added the power creep for Circle grew, so they fixed it, upsetting many of the Circle players but ultimately fixing a huge issue.

I play DZC because its fun, story telling, balance, and hits that scifi edge i love. When i show people the game i can put my warmachine hat to the side and really just show them the joy that is tabletop gaming.

I'm looking to start demos of DZC as we saw with last warmachine campaign people getting burnt out, I find this is a perfect time to talk to people about DZC and how its not about winning but amazing models, fun games and cool stories. Most tend to have a more open ear, we have only a few DZC players in my area so I am always trying to get games and grow the community.

Re: I hate warmachine....

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:57 am
by feindusmaximus
DzC is great to demo (4 behind me now). I purposely play "bad" so the new player wins. It fun to see someone enjoy the game.

Re: I hate warmachine....

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:27 am
by Abrusio
feindusmaximus wrote:DzC is great to demo (4 behind me now). I purposely play "bad" so the new player wins. It fun to see someone enjoy the game.


The first rule of a demo game is always : let the noob wins ! :)

Re: I hate warmachine....

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:26 am
by kontos
Everything you say about DZC is true, however; from my local experience, I disagree on your Warmachine statements. Yes, it is a tight rules system. That is a plus. There is little room for lawyers because of it. Secondly, my local meta has a large turnout on WM night, usually 7 to 10 games going on at a time, and it is a fun, loud night. Games by their very nature are competitive. That is why we play them. It is the people that make most games good or bad. I started out in WM getting my butt handed to me but I learned. I learned from experience and from the players coaching me after the game helping me understand the nuances and synergies in the game. This speaks to the social aspect of our hobby. Nobody likes to "table" a rookie player. There is no joy in that. The better the competition, the more satisfying the win, or loss. And speaking of gorgeous, quality models, WM has that in spades! Personally I feel WM is one of the best tabletop games ever produced. Maybe the people that I have played with and learned from have contributed to that feeling.

Re: I hate warmachine....

PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:57 am
by killionaire
kontos wrote:Everything you say about DZC is true, however; from my local experience, I disagree on your Warmachine statements. Yes, it is a tight rules system. That is a plus. There is little room for lawyers because of it. Secondly, my local meta has a large turnout on WM night, usually 7 to 10 games going on at a time, and it is a fun, loud night. Games by their very nature are competitive. That is why we play them. It is the people that make most games good or bad. I started out in WM getting my butt handed to me but I learned. I learned from experience and from the players coaching me after the game helping me understand the nuances and synergies in the game. This speaks to the social aspect of our hobby. Nobody likes to "table" a rookie player. There is no joy in that. The better the competition, the more satisfying the win, or loss. And speaking of gorgeous, quality models, WM has that in spades! Personally I feel WM is one of the best tabletop games ever produced. Maybe the people that I have played with and learned from have contributed to that feeling.


This was my experience in Warmachine some 6 years ago, which contributed strongly to my rekindling in tabletop gaming! I got charged from way crazy out of range by a spell enhanced Jack which splattered my Warcaster on the 2nd game. My eyes went wide and I said 'wait... you can do that?' and then really got into how games like that rewarded skillful play and high competition.

Have not looked back since. Although I don't play WM anymore, a 4 year run after that including Gencon tourney placement goes to show the strengths of that game. Some of the most mature and fun players I've ever met were through that game :)