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Dropfleet Deathclock...??

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J.D. Welch

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostTue Aug 01, 2017 6:47 am

Shikatanai wrote:I would really appreciate a Deathclock... even at 1250 Pts and 3 hours there is the potential to delay games long enough to change the outcome if you play slow.
Also I really like the idea of timepressure - it is a very interesting dimension if you do not only have to make decisions but to make them fast.

You can always use a Deathclock in your games, with your opponent's agreement, but I'd rather not see it become part of the standard rules for Dropfleet or Dropzone.

If you can't tell your opponent is stalling, maybe you've become too dependent on the Deathclock. LOL.

We don't see this problem -- intentional stalling -- in our meta. Sorry if you do...
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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostTue Aug 01, 2017 7:17 am

How does pendulum deal with the command cards that enhance ground forces? Played a game with it the other day and we decided to just allow any ground combat cards to be discarded for a new draw.
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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostTue Aug 01, 2017 10:17 am

J.D. Welch wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:I would really appreciate a Deathclock... even at 1250 Pts and 3 hours there is the potential to delay games long enough to change the outcome if you play slow.
Also I really like the idea of timepressure - it is a very interesting dimension if you do not only have to make decisions but to make them fast.

You can always use a Deathclock in your games, with your opponent's agreement, but I'd rather not see it become part of the standard rules for Dropfleet or Dropzone.

If you can't tell your opponent is stalling, maybe you've become too dependent on the Deathclock. LOL.

We don't see this problem -- intentional stalling -- in our meta. Sorry if you do...


I do not see it but I only played one tournament so far. Of course noone is stalling at random games but I think the possibility is a thing as tournaments tend to have a very strict schedule and as Dropfleet is a game were a not finished game has a huge impact on the result. (see for example the last tournament in poland) And there is no objective way to tell if someone is stalling intentionally or not.
And as I said before - I really like the time pressure component ;)

I also think that's one of the things that made the WM/H competitive community so big and that game so nice competitivly.
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Ravanar

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostTue Aug 01, 2017 12:22 pm

wundergoat wrote:How does pendulum deal with the command cards that enhance ground forces? Played a game with it the other day and we decided to just allow any ground combat cards to be discarded for a new draw.


I'll have a look at that
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Guardian

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostTue Aug 01, 2017 12:59 pm

J.D. Welch wrote:
Guardian wrote:And JD, what do you mean by the pendulum method of ground combat? I've been out of the loop for a few months.

See this thread, starting with Ravanar's post on Page 4 and going to Page 6:

http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9674&start=30

It may seem a little disjointed, as Ravanar's images appear to be gone. But poke around on the Talon Forum, Page 2, and you'll see some related topics.

It's basically a system for quick ground combat resolution that doesn't involve dice rolling, just "netting out" Armor and Infantry based on assigning a value of 2 to each Armor, 1 to each Infantry, and 0 to Defense Batteries.

Let me know if you still have questions after reading this and the other threads...


Thanks JD. I found the original thread and I'll have a look through the Talons forum. The next time I get to play I'll try out the most up to date system.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostWed Aug 02, 2017 5:30 am

Shikatanai wrote:I also think that's one of the things that made the WM/H competitive community so big and that game so nice competitivly.

And there you've made my case for me. The (overly) competitive nature of WM/H is one of the things I very much dislike about that game. In our area the most cutthroat 40K players migrated to WM/H when 40K no longer slaked their thirst for blood. Eventually that community self-destructed...
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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostWed Aug 02, 2017 3:13 pm

J.D. Welch wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:I also think that's one of the things that made the WM/H competitive community so big and that game so nice competitivly.

And there you've made my case for me. The (overly) competitive nature of WM/H is one of the things I very much dislike about that game. In our area the most cutthroat 40K players migrated to WM/H when 40K no longer slaked their thirst for blood. Eventually that community self-destructed...


Is that a property of the game, or the community?
Warmahordes has a legendarily strong competitive circuit, but Dropzone is no slouch, as a tight, competitive game either.

I think Privateer put a lot of effort into building a big competitive environment, which Hawk has not done in the same degree, regardless of game mechanics.

Of course, I'm OK with that. My personal preferences seem to line up with J.D.'s, on this one.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostWed Aug 02, 2017 5:27 pm

J.D. Welch wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:I also think that's one of the things that made the WM/H competitive community so big and that game so nice competitivly.

And there you've made my case for me. The (overly) competitive nature of WM/H is one of the things I very much dislike about that game. In our area the most cutthroat 40K players migrated to WM/H when 40K no longer slaked their thirst for blood. Eventually that community self-destructed...


If you are not playing competitively I agree that a deathclock is not necessary. In competitive surroundings I think it's one of the best thing that can happen for a game. Especially if you can premeasure anything ;)
I think it is at least a good thing to think about in the future. Also don't forget that it is still possible to play Warma/Hordes without Deathclock :)
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostThu Aug 03, 2017 4:15 am

Shikatanai wrote:
J.D. Welch wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:I also think that's one of the things that made the WM/H competitive community so big and that game so nice competitivly.

And there you've made my case for me. The (overly) competitive nature of WM/H is one of the things I very much dislike about that game. In our area the most cutthroat 40K players migrated to WM/H when 40K no longer slaked their thirst for blood. Eventually that community self-destructed...


If you are not playing competitively I agree that a deathclock is not necessary. In competitive surroundings I think it's one of the best thing that can happen for a game. Especially if you can premeasure anything ;)
I think it is at least a good thing to think about in the future. Also don't forget that it is still possible to play Warma/Hordes without Deathclock :)

And in a Dropfleet tournament you know how long each round is. We all have smartphones with alarms and timers in them, it's a simple matter to set your alarm to go off, for example, 27 minutes before the end of the round and have three 9 minute snoozes to the end of the round. (That's how it works for an iPhone, not sure about an Android).

Like I said, if you want to use one, use one. If you want to organize a tournament where having and knowing how to use a Deathclock is a requirement to participate, hats off to you, and good luck; it would be an interesting experiment. I just don't think tournament games need to have that imposed on them; it's not necessary, and even Dropfleet games needn't be so cutthroat that a Deathclock becomes necessary. There's no purse on the line, but if you're that desperate for prize support, call a judge over to observe. There's lots of things you can do, and that the general community does, to self-police games such that you shouldn't have to require the added pressure of a Deathclock added to what should be friendlier games (even in a tournament setting) than other systems out there...
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Re: Dropfleet Deathclock...??

PostThu Aug 03, 2017 4:33 am

J.D. Welch wrote:
And in a Dropfleet tournament you know how long each round is. We all have smartphones with alarms and timers in them, it's a simple matter to set your alarm to go off, for example, 27 minutes before the end of the round and have three 9 minute snoozes to the end of the round. (That's how it works for an iPhone, not sure about an Android).

Like I said, if you want to use one, use one. If you want to organize a tournament where having and knowing how to use a Deathclock is a requirement to participate, hats off to you, and good luck; it would be an interesting experiment. I just don't think tournament games need to have that imposed on them; it's not necessary, and even Dropfleet games needn't be so cutthroat that a Deathclock becomes necessary. There's no purse on the line, but if you're that desperate for prize support, call a judge over to observe. There's lots of things you can do, and that the general community does, to self-police games such that you shouldn't have to require the added pressure of a Deathclock added to what should be friendlier games (even in a tournament setting) than other systems out there...


+1

You just cannot compare Warmahordes and DzC.

Warmahordes is a game that you win by knowledge. If you know the models on the table, both yours and your opponent's, better than your opponent, you will probably win, unless the dice betray you most harshly. Deathclock or not, if you don't know 100% what your or your opponent's minis can do, if you don't know the combos they can pull off, if you don't know the threat ranges, chances are that you are dead in the water. And with more and more models being released, knowing all of that becomes more and more difficult.

Using a deathclock for that makes no actual difference, because there is no big thinking involved. Either you know your shit, or you die.


DzC is a game that you win by making tactical decisions. You need to bring your troops to the right spot at the right time to perform specific actions. And since several dice rolls can be pretty swingy, you need to be able to adapt your tactics on the fly.

A deathclock could, in my oppinion, be a fun challenge for a casual game, as a one-off. But making it an integral part of the ruleset would just make the game that much less entertaining and probably turn beginners away.
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