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Drop Spam Commander

Tell the world your Dropfleet related trials and tribulations!
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Stompzilla

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 9:44 am

Shikatanai wrote:Are we talking about groundbased game or in general? As Groundgame and Orbitgame are, besides destroying the key ships in Orbit, very much different parts of the game that do not overlap as much I was referring to groundgame for the most part. Orbit ships usually need some flexible play as opportunities occur or disappear but groundgame tend to split the map if there is not enough strikecraft. E.g. why would someone play around all 5 Take&Hold objectives with only 8 strikecraft - way more effective and more reliable to concentrate on 3 clusters - everything else will result in huge gambles and that's what you do not want competitively. I don't see this happening with 12+ because you have enough spare ships to also take some risks. Of course this mainly applies for competitive play but that's what I'm concerned about as casual games do not rely as much on balance and houserules are easy to install.


Honestly, I think that some of this is due to a difference in the way your group approaches the game. If I have 12 Strike carriers and my opponent only has 6, then yes I would challenge for all the sectors.

However, if I have 12 and my opponent has 12, then I'm probably going to split-map and just concentrate on winning more than my opponent. If I take the risk and split my SCs across all the sectors whilst my opponent concentrates all 12 of his around the clusters he needs to win, then I'm going to lose.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 10, 2018 12:04 pm

Stompzilla wrote:Honestly, I think that some of this is due to a difference in the way your group approaches the game. If I have 12 Strike carriers and my opponent only has 6, then yes I would challenge for all the sectors.

However, if I have 12 and my opponent has 12, then I'm probably going to split-map and just concentrate on winning more than my opponent. If I take the risk and split my SCs across all the sectors whilst my opponent concentrates all 12 of his around the clusters he needs to win, then I'm going to lose.


My experience differs from that. Imho it gets much more chesslike if you bring as much Strikecraft. As some of those Strikecarriers / Troopships will also get in later in the game compared to e.g. if you just bring 6-8 you can also react much better. In addition it is also not only about winning the game but also being able to outscoure the opponent as much as possible. With 12+ Strikecarriers it is much more possible to take some risks while seeing the developing of the groundgame (e.g. taking risks on a certain cluster because the rolls were onesided, you got a defence battery down etc.) while not falling too far behind.
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Nobody

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 11, 2018 6:03 pm

It looks like per the Q&A posted to the FB group that Destroyers are just fitting into the space between frigates and cruisers and are going to need to go weapons free to get the most benefit. Nothing about firing into the atmosphere.
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swampsheep

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostMon Jan 15, 2018 9:22 pm

Shikatanai wrote:Are we talking about groundbased game or in general? As Groundgame and Orbitgame are, besides destroying the key ships in Orbit, very much different parts of the game that do not overlap as much I was referring to groundgame for the most part. Orbit ships usually need some flexible play as opportunities occur or disappear but groundgame tend to split the map if there is not enough strikecraft. E.g. why would someone play around all 5 Take&Hold objectives with only 8 strikecraft - way more effective and more reliable to concentrate on 3 clusters - everything else will result in huge gambles and that's what you do not want competitively. I don't see this happening with 12+ because you have enough spare ships to also take some risks. Of course this mainly applies for competitive play but that's what I'm concerned about as casual games do not rely as much on balance and houserules are easy to install.


Maybe I misunderstood you. WIth split-map I thought you meant that the different parts of the game did not interact much with each other so that for instance ships fighting over one cluster stayed there for most of the game and did not go to other clusters or only very rarely.

Shikatanai wrote:Can you elaborate on that? Sounds interesting but I have problems with missions that cannot be mirrored but are still symmetrical?! Not quite sure about balance...
That's also one reason why I like dropfleet - it is, compared to other Tabletops very easy and still fun to built completely mirrored maps giving nobody an advantage.


Yes, I'll try.

Most missions in the book are mirrored over a line that can be drawn between the players entry points. Often it can also be mirrored on a lime drawn through the middle of the other line and perpendicular on said line (That is, the table is quartered and each part can be mirrored to the neighbour quarter).

You can draw those mirror lines elsewhere. Like from corner to corner. Basically you can do any deployment of points of interest (clusters, space stations, etc.) as long as, when measured from the deployment zone, each player has an equal distance to similar targets.

On of the scenarios we made ourselves we had entry points on adjacent corners (and 12" down both sides) and clusters, space stations, etc. where on the other side of the table. There were a single LSO between our entry points partially blocking LOS but did create a situation where you were racing side-by-side to the targets meaning you had a good chance to shoot at your opponent before he could reach the sectors. I think there is plenty of opportunity in varying the missions.

In WFB 8th edition there were a similar situation. People mostly played battle line but if you used all 6 scenarios in the book equally, some very good armies for battle line had a very hard time winning some of the other scenarios. I think some of the same effect is present in dropfleet.
http://linkedbroadsides.com - My blog with analysis, tactics and thoughts about dropfleet. Updates weekly, mostly on Mondays.
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Intruder313

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 25, 2018 9:54 pm

We fixed this before we even played our first proper game by limiting Strike Carriers and Troopships as follows:

Skirmish (up to 999 points) : 2 x Strike Carriers; 1 x Troopship.
Battle (1,000 - 1,499 points) : 4 x Strike Carriers; 2 x Troopships.
Battle (1,500 - 1,999 points) : 6 x Strike Carriers; 3 x Troopships.

It makes the games much more about actual spaceships fighting in orbital space rather than 'Dropzone+'.

But I also think Kill Points should probably always be counted: currently it's some bizarre threshold of kills before they start to earn VP.
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Jan 26, 2018 11:09 am

i dont like this idea

for PHR its like a brake away half of the abilitys and options! because they have Multirole ships, and not just Drop pods!

for shaltari the unique way of sending in ground troops again cant be cut down to a simply number by ships!

how did you guys play with that option? balancing is out of scope
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Jan 26, 2018 2:33 pm

That's exactly the approach where you can as well just skip the dropping game at all - with 6 Launching ships you will basicly have one cluster at max where you will fight... no reason to do anything else.
In addition this moves balance a lot because of differentsurvivability of different strikecraft.
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Jan 26, 2018 2:50 pm

You know i like the ground game very much... why play Dropfleet, if you dont drop a thing...

Byside it gives focus for all 4 races and it makes big balancing. Because orbital fight is not main goal to win, all need to do the same drop troops

I love this aspekt of zhe game, if you dont like that, go play SW Armada or Firestorm...

No need for UCM expert Bombardement if you stop playing the ground game...
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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Gauntlet

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Jan 26, 2018 3:56 pm

Yeah I agree, that would be far too restrictive.

You can still apply some reasonable hard limits to number of strike carriers, but likely nearly double that proposed list.

Or just make Corvettes better in Atmo and a variety of tweaks as proposed that would alter the balance between space and ground for points/etc. As has been discussed prior.

Or do ALL of that :)

Regardless... the TTCombat shop is open! Go buy stuff?
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Intruder313

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostSat Feb 03, 2018 7:41 pm

My values have proven decent so far and still lead to large amounts of counters on the ground. Obviously tweak as you see fit but but doubling them takes it into the pure 'Drop Spam' territory again!
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