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Drop Spam Commander

Tell the world your Dropfleet related trials and tribulations!
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Takxis

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostTue Jan 02, 2018 11:12 pm

Shikatanai wrote:@Swampsheep

The Idea sounds interesting but this will most likely lead to boring splitmaps and fighting for one single objective. What I like about DFC is that you can play around the complete map right now bringing some action nearly everywhere. And again... I see this shifting balance by a lot potentially.


i dont see the difference here the games i have played and those i have watched have mostly resulted in the 'split map' scenario anyway as people calculate what they need to hold to win and then put their resources there completely ignoring other areas. i dont think swampsheep's idea above needs to be so drastic in difference of points if space control lost but the basic idea, i think will re-balance the ground V orbit issues.

all this is moot as ultimately Hawk and TT need to decide what will work. i for one have stopped buying capitol ship models at present as they will not be used. Although after the comp our small group will house rule some things so we can see the capitol ships clash (which for us, and i suspect many, is what we enjoy, not dealing with masses of small junk).
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BlackLegion

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 1:11 am

I really like the idea that you only get full VP for clusters if you also win the Critical Location.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 7:09 am

Takxis wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:@Swampsheep

The Idea sounds interesting but this will most likely lead to boring splitmaps and fighting for one single objective. What I like about DFC is that you can play around the complete map right now bringing some action nearly everywhere. And again... I see this shifting balance by a lot potentially.


i dont see the difference here the games i have played and those i have watched have mostly resulted in the 'split map' scenario anyway as people calculate what they need to hold to win and then put their resources there completely ignoring other areas. i dont think swampsheep's idea above needs to be so drastic in difference of points if space control lost but the basic idea, i think will re-balance the ground V orbit issues.
Takxis wrote:all this is moot as ultimately Hawk and TT need to decide what will work.
Takxis wrote:all this is moot as ultimately Hawk and TT need to decide what will work.


Did you play with 10 / 12+ Strikecarriers? :) I doubt it... That was my point initially why this gameplay should not be killed as a total, it creates interesting gameplay around the whole map - the problems were discussed earlier. I nearly never experienced a Splitmap scenario and most of the time 3+ clusters where under contention when both players bring a reasonable amount of strikecarriers for the amount of objectives in DFC. If both players have e.g. 6 drop it is pretty obvious that they would spread way too thin for really focusing on more than splitting the map.

Takxis wrote:all this is moot as ultimately Hawk and TT need to decide what will work.


Well, this would basicly mean that we should stop all discussions here... actually I think Game Companies need to work closely with the community / the players especially if they are relatively small. Usually a lot of different players and thus also a huge number of actual ingame samples are needed to find all those issues and to present possible solutions. Players are just right at the product and are a great way for giving input. That's why such discussions are key for providing necessary feedback.
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Egge

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 11:23 am

I must note that players, while important, are not the same thing as people commenting on a forum. Players are a group mostly non-vocal part that plays the game. People commenting on the forum are the people who think they are contributing but does not have the complete picture. I'm not saying gaming companies shouldn't listen to the players or people commenting but that players should listen to the silent majority.

Hawk have often listened to players but many times some people think they are right and vocal about it and then we see that people use a balanced list anyway in tournaments. It is a very big gap between what people commenting want to change and what the gaming company should change.
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BlackLegion

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostWed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm

How about if Point Defence doesn't work in atmosphere? Would solve the Corvette problem and also makes Strike Carriers much more killable. You would need loads but the opponent just have to field more Corvettes. Troop Ships would become more valuable this way.
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Takxis

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 12:13 am

my whole point is that at the moment capitol ships are of no consequence to winning the game. spamming strike carriers will do that for you. i dont want to see a game that is all about bringing loads of small ships. how is it a fleet game if only the assault section ever turns up.
i am not saying kill them of (strike carriers etc) but bring in a reason for the capitol ships to be there at all, because at present if you want you can win the game without them, which is not only unrealistic but not good for the game in the long run.
@ shikatanai if your reasoning is lots of strike carriers create play over the whole map, thus meaning the more the better, then maybe how the whole ground system works needs an overhaul so not as many drops are needed to achieve the same result. thus leaving room in lists for the big ships.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 7:29 am

Egge wrote:Hawk have often listened to players but many times some people think they are right and vocal about it and then we see that people use a balanced list anyway in tournaments. It is a very big gap between what people commenting want to change and what the gaming company should change.


So you say that things should not change because might actually use "balanced" lists? It already starts with the term balanced - dropheavy lists are relatively well balanced which is of course the biggest issue for a game. However Listbuilding is very onedimensional right now.

No offense but most of the time the silent majority has also far less ingame experience compared to people that actively want to influence the community because they are casual players. That's not a bad thing but they usually lack enough experience (especially tournament-wise where certain issues become much more evident) to really judge balance issues and yes they might not be affected as much by those balance issues most of the time as well. Yes you are right that Companies need to keep in mind how the bigger picture (and the silent majority looks) but they also need to keep in mind that those are at least to a large amount less committed players and thus have less experience, e.g. I'd argue that I'm not only posting a lot of stuff here but that I also have more games than most of the other german people playing DFC and if I think about how this evolved my look on balancing of this game this is a huge deal. (of course there are always exceptions).

In addition I don't really get how this relates to this topic. Imho nearly everybody here agrees that the game seems to ground focused (compared to other things like balance between factions) and that already speaks for itself.
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BlackLegion

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 10:54 am

Currently the game might be balanced but imagine a game of DZC where everyone only brings standard infantry in light dropships and only one or two armour squads.
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Stompzilla

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 11:28 am

BlackLegion wrote:Currently the game might be balanced but imagine a game of DZC where everyone only brings standard infantry in light dropships and only one or two armour squads.


And if ground based AA didn't exist, (I.e. the key unit that interacts between the sky and the ground), all tournament lists would be composed of max infantry, max fast movers/ airborne AA, with as few vehicles as possible which would be the ones that are best at demo and perhaps the odd flamethrower.

Why would you bother with armour, when they can't really effect the outcome of the game in any meaningful way?

That's the situation we have now in Drop fleet. It's missing its version of AA. The unit that ties it all together.
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BlackLegion

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostThu Jan 04, 2018 11:23 pm

Disallow PD in atmosphere and you have Corvettes as AA.
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