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Drop Spam Commander

Tell the world your Dropfleet related trials and tribulations!
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AdamJHilton

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 pm

@Shikatanai

Thanks for correcting me on the sector/cluster scoring! My gaming group are all new to DFC and none of us had caught that only clusters are worth VPs!

Side question: if you destroy all the sectors in a cluster, can anyone actually claim it as there are no sector points available to claim the cluster? Although, it would still count as a CL. So, it would be worth 0 VP on the ground and 2 VP in orbit.



I guess my main point is that a Drop Spam list -- which seems to be any list committing half or more of their points to the ground game -- just won't have enough combat ships to effectively fight a more balanced list. So, any scenario that forces you to fight in orbit in one way or another will give the balanced list a huge advantage.
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 1:43 pm

AdamJHilton wrote:@Shikatanai

Side question: if you destroy all the sectors in a cluster, can anyone actually claim it as there are no sector points available to claim the cluster? Although, it would still count as a CL. So, it would be worth 0 VP on the ground and 2 VP in orbit.


see the Torunament Rules 2017: (Page 11 Section 2)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0159/ ... 2905486614


A Cluster never can get smaller than 2 sectores or well a small cluster, so you will always get at least 1VP

even if your troops are in ruins!
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Image

i brought up this Post on FB!

Its starting, well lets see how this comes out after the Weekend, right now it looks like the SC Spam list is not this big problem..
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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AdamJHilton

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 1:49 pm

dread2005 wrote:see the Torunament Rules 2017: (Page 11 Section 2)

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0159/ ... 2905486614


A Cluster never can get smaller than 2 sectores or well a small cluster, so you will always get at least 1VP

even if your troops are in ruins!


Well, I guess under the tournament rules, even ruins would still generate 1 sector point...
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 1:57 pm

i would just count the total Tokens in the ruined Cluster, without separating int sectors

but its not written anywhere, this is of topic ;-7
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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AdamJHilton

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 3:33 pm

Okay, just throwing this out there:

You can reduce a cluster you can't contest to a small cluster by destroying one sector for a medium cluster, or two for a large cluster. A Madrid should do 4 points of damage to a sector per turn on average with its bombardment cannons. I can't remember sector stats off the top of my head, but this is enough to destroy some sectors outright.

So, a pair of Madrids should be able to clear cut most of the uncontrollable clusters by turn 4. Also by turn 4, the combat advantage of a balanced list should have the Drop Spam list's fleet turned to debris; leaving all the CLs largely uncontested. That should give the balanced list the VP advantage by controlling the one or two ground clusters you've concentrated on and all the CLs.
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dread2005

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 3:38 pm

+1

yes sir something like this ;-P
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 3:51 pm

dread2005 wrote:
Shikatanai wrote:The thing about reducing clusters size includes a.) not bringing troops yourself or your opponent will just hold the cluster for at least 1 VP with one single Carrier or b.) you bring troops yourself limit your own bombardment options and also scoring options. The player with more strikecraft instead just has much more options to react to it while not loosing anything essential.
Besides that again: Madrids are, as any other cruiser easy to kill and they have to be at the hotspots where you basicly always can fire at them.

There is just no way where Madrids are worth more than additional strikecraft instead. Special scenarios aside... but these scenarios are a balancing mess anyway because other factions get much more flexible Bombardment.



i never say its a autowin i just want to show there are options against Strike Carriers, lots as i think

and byside, that i dont think its that easy to shoot all of my madrids, you trade 1 Madrid against 2 Strike carrier. the Madrids have much more tactic options.

someone which has 14 stirke carrier can not field plenty of Orbital Power anyway

this would be a typical list i think

--------------------------------------
___UCM Strike carrier spam - 1245pts
UCM - 3 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (195pts)
1 x Moscow - 163pts - H
   + UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L

SR12 Line battlegroup (240pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR5 Line battlegroup (132pts)
1 x Seattle - 132pts - M

SR12 Line battlegroup (274pts)
2 x Berlin - 210pts - M
1 x Jakarta - 32pts - L
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

so you have some laser power, but the thing is. i can go sielent running as soon i am finishd bombing

byside that, which Criticals can you hold? mybe you want some RIOs instead because Laser ships have better arcs by not trusting to the middel and critical locations


well i will stop here...

talk about is nice ill go and do some games, after i win ill come back here! ,-p

just need to finde some crazy player which has 12+ Strike Carriers... not at my place right now... ;-7


1 Madrid equals ~2.4 strikecarriers not 2 ;) and yes Madrids are that easy to remove and what you do not really take into account imho is that you reduce either your orbit power or groundpower as well when bringing those. I'd argue that those 2.4 strikecarriers are always more valuable than the madrid especially as you need more than one madrid to reliably do something.

And that's more what a list with that amount looks like:
--------------------------------------
UCM 1250 - 1250pts
UCM - 0 launch assets

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (227pts)
1 x Avalon - 195pts - H
+ UCM Commodore (40pts, 3AV)
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR11 Vanguard battlegroup (227pts)
1 x Perth - 195pts - H
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR11 Line battlegroup (208pts)
2 x New Cairo - 176pts - M
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR6 Line battlegroup (137pts)
1 x Berlin - 105pts - M
1 x New Orleans - 32pts - L

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (239pts)
1 x San Francisco - 111pts - M
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
2 x New Orleans - 64pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

5 BTLs , 6 Bodies for Holding Crits and Drop 14+2. Wasting points on very situative vessels (jakartas) and subpar damagedealers (Moscow, Seattle) of course reduces the Orbit power.

If you take out some strikecarriers and bring some orbit power instead you'll have to play aggressively. Yes you might be able to outdamage but your opponent has the upper hand in scoring leading to him sitting back and taking the fights where he want it. If you take Madrids instead you get outscored as well while he can pick if it is more valuable to actually go for an Orbit win or to take out the Madrids to outscore even more.
I do not really see where such a list would work less efficient than one with Madrids or less strikecraft - especially when considering that you have to play several scenarios potentially offering less options for the Madrids.
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AdamJHilton

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 4:09 pm

"BTL"?

Yeah, I guess Madrids are kind of worthless in a space station scenario. Good point. It does make more sense to bring ships that will be worthwhile in all scenarios. Maybe a single Madrid at most; two is a huge points investment for underpowered cruises when there are no ground clusters to target.

Your list looks to be roughly half ground game and half combat. That still seems to be a bit much in the ground game, but at least there will still be starships blowing up; which is what makes DFC a fun game!
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Shikatanai

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Re: Drop Spam Commander

PostFri Feb 09, 2018 4:21 pm

AdamJHilton wrote:"BTL"?

Yeah, I guess Madrids are kind of worthless in a space station scenario. Good point. It does make more sense to bring ships that will be worthwhile in all scenarios. Maybe a single Madrid at most; two is a huge points investment for underpowered cruises when there are no ground clusters to target.

Your list looks to be roughly half ground game and half combat. That still seems to be a bit much in the ground game, but at least there will still be starships blowing up; which is what makes DFC a fun game!


Burn through laser ;)
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