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New Centurion Stats

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alchahest

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 7:31 pm

Huh. my main opponent is PHR and frequently takes that crippling gun battleship, so I probably won't field these at this cost. Ceramic armor is a neat rule but completely detrimental to me, because of my meta, as I won't be able to make use of it's big gun, without going weapons free and opening myself up to a cross-table cripple, then it's an extremely vulnerable cruiser (already lit up and knocked down to 4+ armor on top of whatever regular cripple roll he gets).

It's not going to be bad for everyone, but it's just going to be a couple pretty shelfwarmers for me. No way this thing survives shooting.
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Nobody

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 12:25 am

The more I think about it, I remember seeing a ruling at one point that a ship being crippled is different from damage from a weapon with the Crippling rule (in fact, its referenced in the collected forum FAQ in the DFC rules forum for a ruling on the Beast special rule).

But it looks like the ruling in question never made it into the 1.1 FAQ on TTCombat's site.

If that is the case, it makes the ship slightly less bad against certain Shaltari and PHR builds.

Edit: I think they were referring to this, but not sure it quite says what we thought:

Q: Several command cards mean that ships regain hull points. If this puts the ship above 50% of its starting hull again, can it be crippled again if it takes more damage?
A: No, a ship can only be only crippled once from normal damage (the exception being weapons that specifically do crippling damage, which may cripple a ship more than once and are a special case).
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Lordprinceps

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 12:54 am

Crippling weapons do not Cripple a ship, they only force it to roll on the crippling damage table.
Ships that reach 50% or less of their hull points become crippled and roll on the crippling damage table once. A ship, once crippled, is always crippled.

Using the DMC or Particle Triad on the Centurion won't prematurely crack its armor; it'll only become crippled, and thus trigger the ceramic armor effect, once it reaches 50% hull or less.
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Eddieddi

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostTue Mar 13, 2018 4:39 am

I'm honestly not sure what to think. The current nerf makes it a just passable cruiser. Playing PHR (and lets assume that the medium isn't a typo) I might take it in a 1250 point game where I don't have a battleship. (having taken a bellepharon, 2 icari, and a battle cruiser,) to give myself a frontliner that I can rely on to soak up some shots, without eating a Heavy slot. It also works well in a group with some drop frigates/cruisers. letting them roam free.

I honestly wouldn't have gone that far, Maybe they wanted it to be clear that its a relic ship and thus worse than everything else, but then my question is why? why everything?

I dislike the fullisade 2, it doesn't feel like a superheavy mass driver cannon hurling huge slugs. Make it a +3 or even +4 to hit. Actually, +4/3 to hit, 2 attacks 2 damage would be quite interesting. Then give the weapon bloom, it is a huge rail gun after all. though I guess TTcombat and dave want to get the most use out of all the unique weapon rules that they developed. I suppose you could give it Calibur H/SH

If we assume the Heavy tonnage is correct (for both) It drops pretty hard off my ship list and on to the shit list. mathematically the frontgun is outshone by most PHR burnthrough weapons, and the side guns are the same as most medium calibur batteries. I won't do the maths on armour vs hull points but I'm guessing it evens out roughly due to the change to +4.

I think mine are going to be relegated to the 'back up ships that fill out slots.' roll.
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Intruder313

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Mar 19, 2018 1:28 am

TTCombat have confirmed that it's a Heavy Cruiser for both Factions.

I still think this new version is about right, except for the main gun being a rapid-fire pea-shooter rather. Needs to be 2 Attacks, 2 Damage and the Lock / Special Rules tweaked around that.
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alchahest

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostWed Mar 21, 2018 8:07 pm

main guns could be: 3+ / 1A / 2D / with heavy calibre and fusilade 3. if they're going to go hard in on a ship with a single turret and linked broadsides having to go weapons free, make the weapons free a huge difference.

also 2D with heavy calibre I think invokes big huge shells better than 1D and a bunch of dice
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Vaktathi

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Anyone have any thoughts on the V3 version? I think Id still prefer the gun profile be some sort of 3+ Lock 2 Damage deal just on how the gun looks, and more importantly I think the Ceramic Armor rules is unnecessary (and just adds more stuff to keep track of), but I think the newest iteration at 145pts and 14hp is substantially more playable than it was, without being quite as ridiculous as its original incarnation.
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Nobody

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 5:43 pm

New version is playable, I don’t think it’ll be a tournament staple but it’s a nice cheap option for a Vanguard group.
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Lorn

Hawk Talon

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Jun 18, 2018 7:16 pm

Well they are certainly improving it and closing in on a better balance I hope they do the same for the Destroyers and learn from that for the Dreadnoughts. Though I have little hope for the latter. :?

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Eddieddi

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Re: New Centurion Stats

PostMon Jun 25, 2018 11:20 am

the 3.0 rules? Hmm I'm still speaking as a PHR player here, so no UCM based comments here.
The fact its a heavy STILL is a big factor. The loss of the 2" on scan is a pretty big issue as now you have to make special effort to make sure its in range for its weapons which puts it out ahead of all the other ships.
Then you have the lackluster PD, while in previous iterations it still had that it had redeeming factors that could offset it. Now you need it to have a fighter escort at almost all times it is at risk of bomber strikes.
the mass driver cannons are....well they don't feel like 'cannons' they feel more like somewhat shitty ucm mass driver guns. and the fullisade does nothing to reinforce that, infact it even makes it feel more like a rapid fire weapon, and less like a huge impact gun. I went over this in my previous post. the only advantage it has is the the higher likelyhood of scoring hits/crits vs high armour, so, I guess its good against itself?
The 'hybrid gun batttery' is just a somewhat worse medium callibur broadside as the normal 'full' boradside has 8 shots, and can have the command cards used with it.
So beyond +1 health and -1 armour vs normal cruisers, and a reduction in points, I honestly can't see much of an advantage.

Maybe it'd be worth in 999p games where You wouldn't take a HC/BC for some reason, but even then for 30-40 more points you can get the much more versatile and in my opinion 'powerful' heavy cruiser, again lots of maybe here, Maybe it'd be worth while if you took 2 of it or even 4 in a bigger game it might work to form a forward battle line, but the issue then is that it is slower than your normal heavy cruiser.
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