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Destroyer rules are up!

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Metal_Oida

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostWed Apr 18, 2018 5:58 am

well...to make it short... I totally agree with Lorn in this thread.
Everybody plz read his longer post on the 1st page, it says it all (if thats a proper english phrase^^)

as for the PHR.... I played a lot PHR... to the point of pure frustration (this point was a game against shaltari.... surprise)
and I have to say that even the best of all destroyers wont fix this faction.
The broadside mechanic needs a serious overhaul!!
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Brutoni

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostThu Apr 19, 2018 7:04 am

Metal_Oida wrote:well...to make it short... I totally agree with Lorn in this thread.
Everybody plz read his longer post on the 1st page, it says it all (if thats a proper english phrase^^)

as for the PHR.... I played a lot PHR... to the point of pure frustration (this point was a game against shaltari.... surprise)
and I have to say that even the best of all destroyers wont fix this faction.
The broadside mechanic needs a serious overhaul!!



Or make them actually tough.. :D
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Defaint_2k

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 1:26 pm

Did anyone considered the Command Cards into this? My thought was that overpowered Ship are probably in line when command Cards are used. But i didn't tested it.

Since i think that command Cards are neccesary to Play the game to make it more balanced.
But i could be wrong beacuse i don t Play a lot . And buy and paint mostly right now.
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Lorn

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostFri Apr 20, 2018 7:59 pm

I don´t see how cards nerf the Inccubus or Kiev or buff other ships to the necessary level, also the odds of drawing specific cards in time are rather low.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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Eddieddi

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostSat Apr 21, 2018 9:44 am

Defaint_2k wrote:Did anyone considered the Command Cards into this? My thought was that overpowered Ship are probably in line when command Cards are used. But i didn't tested it.

Since i think that command Cards are neccesary to Play the game to make it more balanced.
But i could be wrong beacuse i don t Play a lot . And buy and paint mostly right now.


Honestly? The game should be balanced without the purview of command cards being involved. A ship that can be made broken should not be changed, because the necessity of those command cards being in hand, at the time of that ship doing that specific thing, is either too low to be worth considering (see the use of weapon hack on a diamonds main gun or the 'ship of the line' card on a ship with a linked broadside firing both broadsides twice due to linked, or Foresight + lives of expirance to draw any 3 cards from the top 5 of your deck, or crippling shot with a crippling weapon). The percentage change of having those in your hand, and having that situation occur, and the enemy not having a counter or some kind of solution in hand is rather low. Whereas a ship that NEEDS command cards to not be broken, needs to be changed, If the only way I can beat enemy ship X is to have card Y in my hand, it means every game I don't draw card Y, I am at a massive disadvantage unless I have ship X. No ships should not be balanced regarding command cards and the command cards must be treated as a separate entity to be handled on their own.

Mind you on the topic of command cards, I'd really like to see some more faction specific ones released.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostMon Apr 30, 2018 5:51 pm

Besides the things I already stated:

I think Ariadna and Cobalts are underestimated.
The Ariadna brings everything you want - 2 of them can replace one Troopship, bring overall better weaponry an additional target and great sustain for the points invested. On top it can get a relatively cheap but useful scan inside any BG with only increasing SR by 2.

The Cobalt basicly does the same. It has the same weaponry as a Topaz / half the Weaponry of a Amber on Standard order and brings in another drop. It can do three things Shaltari are suffering from right now a.) you can get another cheap active scanners that actually are still worth taking beside the Opal b.) SR management of groups gets easier
Yes when just considering drop 1 Mothership is better than 2 Cobalt for roughly the same price but 2 3+ shots as well as additional scans in groups you want them is great. It also gets easier to built groups that dish out a lot of damage without the need of WF.

So overall:
Incubus - way too good
Kiev - a little too good, mainly in comparison to other UCM choices.
Ariadna / Cobalt I would consider not too good in general but too good in comparison internally. Especially the Ariadna will remove a lot of choices in PHR lists.
Maybe the Shaltari Mauler is also a little too strong...
Everything else is just crap and won't see the table in any good list imho.
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Birdie_Sparrow

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostFri May 04, 2018 10:41 pm

I am quite frankly dismayed that the PHR does not have a destroyer carrier. The side with arguably the best bombers in the game and no CV option?

The Ariadne needs to be made a launch asset 1 or 2 honestly. I would say just use the blockade runner for bulk landers but that is a rare so limited.

The Ariadne could even be made flexible - you may take them as the bulk lander or CV config similar to weapons that can be used either/or (ex the Furnace Cannon). Determine at game start the config. This is inline with the fluff that states the Ariadne "...is laid out in a multi-role configuration more in keeping with typical PHR fleet doctrine. Primarily, it is an early stage planetary assault ship designed to compliment strike carriers."

Best way to compliment strike carriers is to allow them the flexibility to either add to that carrier compliment or get more troops to the ground.

I mean seriously the scourge get a carrier version with their mediocre launch assets?
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Nobody

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostSat May 05, 2018 6:26 pm

They already have a 1 launch asset frigate though
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Birdie_Sparrow

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostSun May 06, 2018 6:37 am

Nobody wrote:They already have a 1 launch asset frigate though


Correct but that does not invalidate my statement. I could also point out the Medea lands troops so why do we need destroyers that do so?

The PHR are probably the most carrier oriented in the game due to their launch assets being so good. I mean seriously they are pretty much the launch asset kings of this game. WHy would the PHR give up what is certainly an advantage? Especially when you can have a ship class that bridges between the frigates and cruisers?

Two assets is probably too much I agree as the Ikarus has two and that is a cruiser. However, there is no reason they could not have a launch asset 1

If you want to get sneaky af take an Odysseus give it launch asset 1. That thing would be a terror if a squad of three were running around. God they could skim the perimeter, be impossible to find and just keep tossing bombers. Basically it is a "heavy" escort carrier.
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Lorn

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Re: Destroyer rules are up!

PostSun May 06, 2018 8:52 am

Birdie_Sparrow wrote:I could also point out the Medea lands troops so why do we need destroyers that do so?


A good start would be to acknowledge the difference between Bulk Landers and Drop Ships, the difference between the Medea and the Ariadne/Odysseus is rather significant. The Medea can dive into Orbit and mostly drops armour tokens, while the other two drop Infantry en masse from low orbit, they are easier to target but can switch between clusters faster.

Birdie_Sparrow wrote:WHy would the PHR give up what is certainly an advantage? Especially when you can have a ship class that bridges between the frigates and cruisers?


Care to elaborate the gap that is supposedly to be bridged? PHR have a small Carrier with 1 Asset, they have a "medium" with 2 and two bigger ones with 4. So where is the gap between the Ikarus and the Andromeda in regards to launch assets? The Destroyer you propose would be a heavier Andromeda, most likely invalidating either of them but not closing any "gap" in regards to launch assets as you propose it to have 1 exactly the same as the Andromeda.


As it stands I fail to see the need for anything between the Andromeda and the Ikarus, hell even the Revenant you envy is currently rather useless rule wise. If you want a Destroyer with Bombers that bad, ask your opponent if you can switch the Bulk Lander for a Bomber, as it is a straight downgrade there should be no issues for most people. I would most certainly let you handicap yourself if you insist on doing so.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017

German space magic for all and this time it is in Space!
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10506
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