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Homebrew Resistance Fleet

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Achiles625

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Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostTue Mar 21, 2017 11:29 pm

I really like the Resistance. I get why there aren't warlords with a fleet and an army, but why couldn't they exist separately? Yes, I know; building ships is hard and the scourge have a huge fleet and you can't hide underground in space to disrupt their telepathy/communications/etc blah blah blah. I want one and there are other people that want such a fleet so there is good money to be made in it and it wouldn't imbalance the game or anything. the fleet that I am talking about could be a fleet of space born rovers. Survivors from the initial invasion that couldn't make it to the outer colonies. The cradle worlds are only 8 systems but in between those eight systems have to be hundreds, nay thousands of stars. There were no out of the way outposts, no lucky jumpers, no places to hide? Even within a given system space is vast (bigger than the underground of a planet btw) and it is full of moons, planets, planetoids and asteroids that could provide tremendous supplies of minerals. Add to that an unlimited energy supply from the sun, and a space born refuge could theoretically hide out for a long time unnoticed.

So I decided to try my hand at a homebrew rover (resistance) fleet to prove that the concept was workable. You can comment, though please reserve comments longer than a sentence for this thread. I also hope some of you will play test and provide feedback. Enjoy (hopefully)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1USUKj ... 5-yfFXs-Ac
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Kelbesq

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostWed Mar 22, 2017 4:26 am

I really like many of the ideas, especially the idea of stolen tech.

Just reading through it, I see a lot of similarities to the Minmatar faction in EVE. If you aren't familiar with them, they are a race of people that were initially enslaved, but rebelled and gained their independence. Many of their initial ship were refereed to as rust buckets, and many jokes about being held together with duct-tape were made. Their primary weapon system of choice were projectiles, which included both artillery and auto-cannons. But they also had a propensity to mix in torpedoes or other missiles systems, rather than making dedicated missile boats, making them harder to use skill wise. Their ships were typically skirmishers, and speed an evasiveness was a common trait.

Why am I mentioning EVE? Because there are many good ideas to steal, and think it meshes well thematically. The first that comes to mind are different artillery payloads. In Dropfleet, this would show up as alt-fire modes for different rounds. The Minmatar often switch hit between shields and armor (but not on the same ship). This might be harder to translate to Dropfleet, as shields are more of a Shaltari thing. Maybe have a few of the ships be evasive, and a few more armor centric.
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Achiles625

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostWed Mar 22, 2017 9:42 pm

Thanks so much for checking it out and giving your opinion! I think that you are right about stolen tech being a cool theme. Therefore I replaced the tri-mounted artillery battery on the Shiva class battleship with an oculus beam grand array to emphasize the whole burninating thing.

I like the idea of alternate ammo, but that would require giving alt fire modes to every set of turrets. I think that that would simply take up too much space in the ship entries. One thing that I did do was cut down on the number of shots from their close action weapons. In return, I gave them swarmer to represent the hundreds or thousands of rockets that one of these ships will unleash in a single volley. Rovers would agree with Stalin that quantity has a quality all of its own. ;)

Finally I combined all of the single and double mounted artillery batteries into triple mounts. That doesn't actually change the stats just the description.
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Samael

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostSat Mar 25, 2017 8:09 pm

I like it. It is how I envision a resistance fleet. I also like the hiding in atmo ability of some of the cruisers. As well as the reliance on torpedoes.

I also like how they have more powerful, but less accurate mass drivers. I see them as being similar to the MAG guns from halo ships. And the UCM ditched them infvaout of cobra lasers and turreted mass drivers.

Had you thought about using the Orks from BFG as a template? Having a basic cruiser hull and then adding weapons of choice, to make the fleet much more ragtagged rather than specific designs.

I also think that they could have a faction wide speed boost rule. Similar to what the Shiva class has. Speed is the resistances greatest Allie.

The only critisms I can think of are

Useing UCM tech. This should be very rare, special character rare. They have only been around a few years
Also I don't like the name artillery battery. Makes them sound indirect and random. What about kinetic batteries?

Finally are you going to design any feral and allied specific ships? I can see feral being swarmy close action ships with boarding (corruptor) close action attacks and allied using more ranged attacks
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Achiles625

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostMon Mar 27, 2017 10:08 pm

Thanks for the feedback Samael! I'm glad that you like the style of weaponry. The reliance on torpedoes and older mass drivers was something that I felt reflected the tendency of the resistance in DzC to rely upon older, more brute force tech as well.

A number of people have suggested having modifiable ships and that was something that I was thinking of as well. Unfortunately that is extremely hard to balance properly. I'm not a professional game design company with loads of play testers so I didn't want to go tat route. However, the basic weaponry lends itself to that and I tried to use very generic type armaments. You'll notice that nothing has a serial number. Really even the names of systems such as Chieftan and Warlord, distinguish less a specific design and technical difference than a general difference in size of the armament and volume of fire. This is true with the ship classes as well. No two Talon class cruisers look exactly alike, but they all tend to carry multiple turrets some equally split between fore and side mounts.

As for the speed, most of their sips are already pretty fast. At least the "pirate" class vessels such as the frigates, the Claw and Talon class cruisers, and the battlecruisers (I upped their speed to 10"). The reason I gave the Shiva class the overthrust rule was because their slow speed made them much less viable in their role as troop/bombardment vessel. If it was fleet wide I fear it would make them too fast and good. In my early drafts all of the frigates had vectored, for example.

The use of UCM tech is limited to a Cobra Heavy Laser mounted on the Osiris class battleship. I felt like this was finite enough. Only a few warlords can assemble such a fearsome vessel. Though, at 249pts, I suppose that you could see two of them on the table, but I don't think that a rover fleet managing to recover two Cobra Heavy Lasers from among all of the space junk in orbit of the various cradle worlds is completely out of order. Maybe I'll just change the name to a generic Burnthrough Laser.

On the second point, artillery isn't actually inaccurate. modern artillery can hit a target as small as a few meters. These are based off of naval artillery guns that are designed for direct, not indirect, fire. So they should actually be even more accurate, what with there being no bullet drop or crosscurrents. I do like the name kinetic though. The problem is that Mass Drivers are also kinetic weaponry. The main difference being the means of propelling the projectile that delivers the kinetic energy.

Finally, if I was to have a feral vs allied ships thing, it would probably be in the form of UCM vessels crewed by rovers or attached to their flotillas to aid them. At the same time I would ban vessels like the Fang/Claw/Talon that are most widely used by piratical groups. If you wanted to field something like a Lima instead of a Diviner, or a New Orleans instead of a Reveler, or any other such appropriate substitution. These are not hard and fast rules. I encourage you to proxy it and play around with fleet composition. Just make sure that you report back so that I can adjust accordingly! :-)

Thanks again for the input. If you have any more specific comments, such as on a specific class of ship, I have enabled them on the document. (Sorry for the long post. TL;DR Thought about a lot of this, some is workable some isn't. Feel free to experiment and report back!)
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Achiles625

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostTue Apr 25, 2017 11:58 pm

I was really hoping that I might get more replies and views on this. :( I haven't been able to get any table time with this fleet yet because my group is just getting started. Has anyone else tried it out?
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Terry Perdue

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostWed Apr 26, 2017 4:17 am

Why wouldnt the Resistance have older designs they have salvaged and kept up, or even built from Scourge technology? There has to be some sort of Resistance Space assets because they maintain the nodes.

I also wonder if any of the Scourge slaves races survived as Resistance movements of their own, and maybe what is happening with the UCM has happened or is happening elsewhere. And would these alien enemies of the Scourge encounter the UCM at some point?
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Achiles625

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostWed Apr 26, 2017 11:35 am

Terry Perdue wrote:Why wouldnt the Resistance have older designs they have salvaged and kept up, or even built from Scourge technology? There has to be some sort of Resistance Space assets because they maintain the nodes.

I also wonder if any of the Scourge slaves races survived as Resistance movements of their own, and maybe what is happening with the UCM has happened or is happening elsewhere. And would these alien enemies of the Scourge encounter the UCM at some point?


That's a good point. I always figured that it didn't make much sense that the resistance could somehow be so weak and yet survive for 150 years under Scourge occupation. Also, are we really to believe that the Scourge just couldn't find the colonies or anyone else to invade in the span of several hundred years? Why haven't they overrun everyone by now if they are such amazing uber apex predators? They are not infallible. They didn't see the reconquest coming (nor are they using all of their resources to fight it). They maintain MASSIVE occupation forces in all of the areas that they occupy. Maybe trying to absorb billions of people across dozens of systems has strained their resources and they overestimated the ease with which humanity could be subdued?
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Terry Perdue

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostThu Apr 27, 2017 7:10 am

That's a good point. I always figured that it didn't make much sense that the resistance could somehow be so weak and yet survive for 150 years under Scourge occupation. Also, are we really to believe that the Scourge just couldn't find the colonies or anyone else to invade in the span of several hundred years? Why haven't they overrun everyone by now if they are such amazing uber apex predators? They are not infallible. They didn't see the reconquest coming (nor are they using all of their resources to fight it). They maintain MASSIVE occupation forces in all of the areas that they occupy. Maybe trying to absorb billions of people across dozens of systems has strained their resources and they overestimated the ease with which humanity could be subdued?[/quote]

The Scourge send out seed ships all the time, and these take massive resources to produce. These vessels might require a super-rare element that they have now exhausted-- or are about to exhaust-- from the Cradle Worlds, OR they have reached a point in the usage of humans as hosts where they just do not have enough humans to sustain Scourge population growth.

Also, the Reconquest could be an occurrence that happens to the Scourge in every conquered area, either pushing them to higher development or pushing them to evacuate.

It would be interesting if the UCM makes contact with a coalition of races that have survived the Scourge invasions and are chasing them down. The Lizard race, even the Razorworms, which in their natural state might not even be violent.
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Garbutt

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Re: Homebrew Resistance Fleet

PostTue May 02, 2017 5:28 pm

Terry Perdue wrote:Why wouldnt the Resistance have older designs they have salvaged and kept up, or even built from Scourge technology? There has to be some sort of Resistance Space assets because they maintain the nodes.

I also wonder if any of the Scourge slaves races survived as Resistance movements of their own, and maybe what is happening with the UCM has happened or is happening elsewhere. And would these alien enemies of the Scourge encounter the UCM at some point?



To the best of my knowledge, the nodes are ground based, and therefore you don't need an orbital capability to maintain them. The Resistance simply moved them to hidden locations and kept them running...

As to why the Scourge haven't wiped the Resistance out yet?
Dave Lewis has said the Scourge are extremely pragmatic - everything is a Risk VS Reward equation to them. The amount of effort involved in chasing down and capturing/killing every single Resistance fighter would presumably far outweigh the benefits of doing so - the Scourge are primarily interested in capturing new host bodies and the Resistance now are not really a viable target anymore - they are elusive, fight hard and are VERY highly motivated. And they will never surrender - they know only to well what happens if you are taken alive. A cornered Resistance fighter will suicide rather than be captured. And if possible, he will suicide in a way that takes as many Scourge as possible with him...

I think we can assume then that the Scourge have looked at the logistics of wiping out/mass capturing the Resistance and decided it simply isn't worth the effort involved - the Resistance cant hit the Scourge on a large enough scale to be anything other than a localized nuisance, so beef up security around important facilities and leave the humans to their tunnels.

Heh. 'A localized nuisance'. I wonder how much that opinion would have changed if they had known that the Resistance were maintaining the old Foldspace Nodes that let a vengeful UCM jump straight down the Scourges collective throats :D
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