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The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

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J.D. Welch

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The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 5:16 am

Based on a recent local tournament, and other input from other sources, but the point struck home at our last tournament, the PHR Echo appears to be too good in its current form and points.

It's just straight up too powerful without something that has a "Strafe" capability to target multiple ships with one gun in order to try to counter it (or any group of corvettes).

Frankly, as a PHR player first and foremost, the Echo needs to be toned down, or restricted in terms of how many you can take. Its forward gun is too good, and really not needed on a ship of corvette class, at its current points. It's more of an "atmospheric frigate" than a corvette, and far too easy to spam.

One suggestion from our local meta is to restrict all corvettes to only being able to be taken in Pathfinder battlegroups (this could solve several corvette "issues", and is not without precedent -- Superheavies can only be taken in a Flag battlegroup, and Heavy ships can only be taken in a Vanguard BG; it's easily conceivable that corvettes could only be taken in a Pathfinder BG).

Another suggestion is to remove the Echo's forward gun, or at least reduce it to a single shot. The ability for a corvette to seriously damage a cruiser at range was one of the key complaints about the Glass. The Echo has the same issue, and while I can understand the desire on Hawk's part to have something somewhat different in each faction's corvette slot, the fact that it has the best armor, typical CAW and a 2 Shot Lock 4 railgun in its nose makes it just too easy (and desirable) to spam (in a bad way, even at 30 points a pop), and very difficult to counter when they show up in double digit numbers.

Thoughts?
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dread2005

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 5:45 am

Well my use of Corvettes never was very benefitable, but i only used UCM ones till now

Beside this if there are always the same concerns because of Spaming corvettes it could be a overal solution to reduce the slot numbers of al Factions from 3 down to 2

I saw that UCM one normal get used at 4x in a group this would not change, but bigger groups would suddenly eat up more slots
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Akdakkar

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 5:53 am

In my opinion all the corvette issue is that you can take too many of them without any limitations in the organization chart.

Limited corvettes to pathfinder and with group size limit would resolve the problem, I think.
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Lorn

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 9:34 am

How is that a limit? Maybe for list that use a lot of Strike carriers as it makes it inconvenient to field those but one has 2 Pathfinder groups at Skirmish and Clash with 3 Light group slots each. That gives me 18 PHR/UCM/Scourge or 36 Shalatari Corvettes. That is more then I will need even if I spam Corvettes.

Personally I am underwhelmed by the Echo though mostly at it´s ability to hunt Strike Carriers, I have not tried using swarms of 10 or more as a CAW replacement with guns.

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shuul

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 9:53 am

Im totally fine with Echo, while it has additional firepower versus normal ships it really lacks a punch in atmosphere in usual corvette role (comparing to other factions corvettes taking cost\speed into consideration). No need to change it.

But I agree that limiting any corvette spam is a change that is strongly required.
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dread2005

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 9:54 am

Lorn wrote:How is that a limit? Maybe for list that use a lot of Strike carriers as it makes it inconvenient to field those but one has 2 Pathfinder groups at Skirmish and Clash with 3 Light group slots each. That gives me 18 PHR/UCM/Scourge or 36 Shalatari Corvettes. That is more then I will need even if I spam Corvettes.

Personally I am underwhelmed by the Echo though mostly at it´s ability to hunt Strike Carriers, I have not tried using swarms of 10 or more as a CAW replacement with guns.


well if we go down to 1 - 2 corvetts each light slot would give you a max Group size in game of 6 Glass/Santiago/Echo/Nikar for a Pathfinder filed with corvettes...

regarding my opinion to do the buy group size of all corvettes down to 1-2 equal for all factions
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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CaptainCrunch

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 11:23 am

The Echo is perfectly fine in my opinion. It is the most expensive corvette and is marginally better than the santiago in atmosphere. However, the problem appears to be spamming and not With the ship itself. I also feel there should be a limit on ships capable of dropping troops. Has anyone played a game against someone who spent more than half their points on drop assets? While not boring it is a whole lot less interesting ... for both parties. Since there is a limit on Launch Assets why not put a limit on ground launch assets and corvettes at the same time. I propose putting a 1/3 total points cap on combined Corvettes and ground launch capable ships. Perhaps that limit is a little low but it will certainly curtail the spamming of both ship types ... else the fleet will be defficient elsewhere.
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Lyraeus

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 11:50 am

While I have not spammed Echoes yet, it is nearly the price of other factions frigates, it has the same god-awful turret that I hate on the cruisers and it has a weak hunting ability against the targets that it's class of ships like to hunt.

It can't claim critical locations I believe with the experimental rules and it can't active scan. To me it is an undersized frigate
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dread2005

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 11:51 am

CaptainCrunch wrote:The Echo is perfectly fine in my opinion. It is the most expensive corvette and is marginally better than the santiago in atmosphere. However, the problem appears to be spamming and not With the ship itself. I also feel there should be a limit on ships capable of dropping troops. Has anyone played a game against someone who spent more than half their points on drop assets? While not boring it is a whole lot less interesting ... for both parties. Since there is a limit on Launch Assets why not put a limit on ground launch assets and corvettes at the same time. I propose putting a 1/3 total points cap on combined Corvettes and ground launch capable ships. Perhaps that limit is a little low but it will certainly curtail the spamming of both ship types ... else the fleet will be defficient elsewhere.



well this is a other problem which in my eyes should only, and i maen only be solved by changing the way scenarios let you score VPs that would make a automatic change of Meta game!
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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W0lfBane

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Re: The PHR Echo -- The new "Problem Child"?

PostThu May 04, 2017 11:55 am

Why not make all corvettes [rare]
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