It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:54 am


Voidgates on CLs

Stuck on a rules interpretation, get it answered here!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

Major Awesome

  • Posts: 293
  • Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:27 pm
  • Location: Phoenix, Arizona

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:35 pm

At LVO the Arizona crew took lists with 3 and 4 Emeralds along with 12 and 13 voidgates. About a third of the total points in a list I suppose. Is that the spam that seems needs to be fixed? Because that's not spam at all. We fight Arizona opponents who bring PHR with 3xTroopships and 8xMedea (JD's LVO list). How else can we approach that?

Bringing 1:3 is the minimum established pretty clearly by the idea that you need 3 voidgates to drop a mothership's troop capacity. We've built those lists in response to our meta where we see stuff like the above-mentioned 3 PHR Troopships and 8xMedea across the table. I see all of it as legit lists, and a response to the escalation of strike carriers the other players bring. I just worry, and of course I haven't played Shaltari with the new rules yet, but I just worry that now the PHR list still has 8 strike carriers that can grab CLs and the Shaltari lists don't have that option. I don't see that as a healthy change when it hits just one faction.

Before the inevitable "but look you two Shaltari players totally won LVO like that, omg nerf!" please take into consideration that at that point we had been playing DfC exclusively since October, almost weekly, theorizing constantly about what works, learning the rules inside and out... and then most of the competition at LVO shows up to play their third or fourth game EVER. I'd say that contributed much more to our placement than what faction we took and how many voidgates we had.
~Major Awesome~
Hedgehog schemer, Resistance lover, and on those random full moons when PHR aren't everywhere my true nature as cyborg comes out.
Offline

Skinwalker

  • Posts: 271
  • Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm not in any way criticising you. It IS spam, and so are their lists, but that's not anyone's fault. And it is absolutely legit.

Unfortunately the way the game and victory conditions work right now, you did exactly the correct thing. It IS the only way to counter opposing lander spam, and you are right that this will hurt Shaltari a lot against said lander spam.

IMO the games meta is pretty unhealthy in general right now due to the over importance of the ground game, but others disagree...which is also quite valid.
Offline

Lorn

Hawk Talon

  • Posts: 2305
  • Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:48 pm

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostThu Mar 23, 2017 5:45 pm

Skinwalker wrote: It IS spam, and so are their lists, but that's not anyone's fault. And it is absolutely legit.


Not criticising you but I feel spam is an overused word in the context of wargaming. "Look at those Romans spamming their OP Legionaries instead of fielding their inferior cavalry and if they do they field allied cav!" :lol:

I also doubt the 1250 help in regard of how the lists look as you there is the same amount of light slots as for 1500P but less points for bigger stuff once you filled in the ground troops.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017
Offline

Skinwalker

  • Posts: 271
  • Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:40 am

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostFri Mar 24, 2017 7:53 am

It probably is overused tbh, and of course it doesnt apply in many cases, especially historical games. My Dark Ages armies do tend to spam guys with spears :D

I think you're right on the 1250 tbh as well.
Offline
User avatar

J.D. Welch

Hawk Talon

  • Posts: 5215
  • Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:16 am
  • Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostSun Mar 26, 2017 7:17 am

On the 1,250 note, a few of us here are going to try 1,500 point games with the streamlined ground rules and see if we can't get them done in 2.5 hours consistently.

We've found that 1,500 points is just that much more interesting.

For me, the extra 250 points really just could mean taking a battleship that I wouldn't otherwise take, and I can't see how that would slow the game down significantly...
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
Offline

Lorn

Hawk Talon

  • Posts: 2305
  • Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:48 pm

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostSun Mar 26, 2017 10:06 am

Yeah for the fans of bigger ships more points are a better solution. Increasing game time and going up to 1750P might even be worth a try.

German space magic for PHR would you like to know more?
http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017
Offline
User avatar

Wenner69

  • Posts: 226
  • Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:02 am
  • Location: Novi michigan

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostSun Mar 26, 2017 12:44 pm

I have just finished the adepticon tournament. Won 3 games against scourge, shaltari and phr. I got lazy and never scored turn 6 on the last game which meant 15-5 instead of 20 - 0. In the end I placed 2nd with the same tournament points as first place.

I took the following list
--------------------------------------
Adepticon 1250 Shaltari - 1250pts
Shaltari - 0 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (350pts)
1 x Diamond - 270pts - S
   + Star Shaman (20pts, 2AV)
2 x Opal - 80pts - L

SR9 Line battlegroup (160pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L

SR13 Line battlegroup (245pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M

SR9 Line battlegroup (175pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L
1 x Turquoise - 115pts - M

SR6 Pathfinder battlegroup (108pts)
6 x Glass - 108pts - L

SR4 Pathfinder battlegroup (192pts)
2 x Amethyst - 96pts - L
2 x Amethyst - 96pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------


The changes proposed in the experimental rules look OK but will really invalidate this list as a main contender. With that being said, I think the changes are good
Blessed by the white sphere
Offline
User avatar

J.D. Welch

Hawk Talon

  • Posts: 5215
  • Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:16 am
  • Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostMon Mar 27, 2017 2:47 am

Congratulations, Mr. Wenner!

What did you see at Adepticon in terms of lists? How many Troopships/Emeralds and Strike Carriers/VGs were your opponents taking, and any other lists you saw?

I'm rather surprised that you took so many VGs with only two Emeralds... :?
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
Offline
User avatar

Weidekuh

  • Posts: 423
  • Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:33 pm

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostMon Mar 27, 2017 4:07 am

Count again... ;)
Resistance & Shaltari
Offline
User avatar

J.D. Welch

Hawk Talon

  • Posts: 5215
  • Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 7:16 am
  • Location: Gilbert, AZ, USA

Re: Voidgates on CLs

PostMon Mar 27, 2017 7:22 am

Weidekuh wrote:Count again... ;)

Oops! I counted one Emerald as a VG. So, three Motherships and 12 VGs. Yeah, that's pretty much the perfect ratio...
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
PreviousNext

Return to Rules Queries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest