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Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

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Suzume

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostTue Jul 11, 2017 6:56 pm

That is a respectable enough list that I think has the tools it needs to make an impact, even if my own style of play tends toward range, reliability, and durability over speed.
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Gonefishing

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostTue Jul 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Well, I personally am not sure on the Zeus as a Commander nowadays, or at least a Zeus as a commander with only one Bodyguard. With only 2 DP it can be easy to double out with a lucky shot, and if you have gone the whole hog and spent 120 points making him a level 4 (201 pts total), that's a prime target and a big risk with all the blast and E11 weapons out there nowadays.

I did have some quite good fun running a group like this however (Commander was lower level)

Hand of the Sphere [535 pts]
Command Squad: Zeus(Councillor), 2x Odin, Hyperion, Njord [435 pts]
Medusa: Medusa [100 pts]


The Medusa was there without a Triton X, as she can keep up with the Njord without it and her job was crowd control / Medic for the heavy squad. Add an Erebos squad into the mix and you have a Deathstar unit that can really take the pain! (and dish it out too).
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illrede

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostTue Jul 11, 2017 9:01 pm

3+ passive save, if they kill you they've earned it. Or you were sticking your nose into things, acting like a grunt.
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Gonefishing

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostTue Jul 11, 2017 9:51 pm

illrede wrote:3+ passive save, if they kill you they've earned it. Or you were sticking your nose into things, acting like a grunt.


a 3+ Passive has a 33% chance of failing, a 1 in 3 chance of failing are odds I don't like to risk on a Command unit with 2 DP given the plethora of weapons out there nowadays that have an average chance of doubling it out on a single successful hit (or taking it down through weight of fire), especially when its going to be a prime target for your opponent.

Don't get me wrong, when the game was first released I think the Zeus was awesome, I just think it has become less awesome as the game has grown and new units have been released with increasing access to high E shots. It is still good if you want a Cheap HQ unit, but I would not (personally) be spending lots of points giving it a high command level without a far more substantial bodyguard than 1 Odin - which I think is too risky.

As for "Sticking your nose into things, acting like a grunt" - Given the fact that it has a mobility of 2" its not exactly hard for your opponent to close in on once you drop, and if you spend the game shuttling it around the table in a Neptune its not going to be adding much fire to the party, or holding many critical locations. What I do find however, is a Zeus with a large bodyguard of heavies to take ablative shots (as High Energy / High ROF is still relatively uncommon), properly supported by the rest of your force can happily sit and take a shed load of punishment.

That's just my opinion, but personally I would not put a high command level on a Zeus / Single Odin / Neptune unit - not in my meta anyway.
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostWed Jul 12, 2017 9:20 pm

OK, finally at my laptop, so I can grab my LVO list off of FFoR:

PHR 1500 - JD Welch - LVO2017
Clash: 1500/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1500/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [337 pts]
      • Hera Squad: Hera(Councillor), Hera (Guardian), 3x Apollo-A [337 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [320 pts]
      • Battle Squad: 2x Phobos, Njord [236 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Menchit A2: 2x Menchit A2 [84 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [63 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
    • Immortals [261 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Immortals [211 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Erebos Squad: 2x Erebos-B, Neptune [110 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [308 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

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Berjiz

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostFri Jul 14, 2017 12:53 am

J.D. Welch wrote:Erebos-A's and Erebos-B's? And a walk-on Menchit?... And your only AA is the two Athenas???...

How does that work out for you, bro?


Erebos can be good as indirect AA. Not everyone is used to playing against them and they work very well against Ferruns since the drones range is only 6 so they only hit on 6s. Erebos overall can be very effective in some situations. However it can be hard to get good use of them and sometimes there just isn't any good place for them and they just get outranged and killed.

Here is my list from invasion last year. I think I came 22 with it which was better than I expected since it I only been playing for a few months at the time. There are some possible variations of the list. The Menchit A2 can be switched for Ares. I also tried a variation with Hyperions instead of Odins but I think the Odins are better in most cases.

Njord Erebos
Clash: 1500/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1500/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [441 pts]
      • Command Squad: Zeus(Councillor), 3x Odin, Njord [441 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [320 pts]
      • Menchit A2: 2x Menchit A2, Njord [194 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Battle Squad: 2x Phobos [126 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [166 pts]
      • Battle Squad: 2x Phobos, Neptune [166 pts]
    • Immortals [101 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
    • Immortals [214 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1(+Miniguns) [104 pts]
      • Erebos Squad: 2x Erebos-B, Neptune [110 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [258 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, Triton A1(+Miniguns) [126 pts]
      • Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1(+Miniguns) [132 pts]

I've been testing another version too with the Erebos switched to an Athena. The idea of the list is to combine it with the Menchits so that the light dropships can't hang around with the infanteri to avoid the flamers. There are also some other changes due to point costs.

Njord FM
Clash: 1498/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1498/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [429 pts]
      • Command Squad: Zeus(Councillor), Odin, 2x Hyperion, Njord [429 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [320 pts]
      • Menchit A2: 2x Menchit A2, Njord [194 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Battle Squad: 2x Phobos [126 pts]
    • Immortals [261 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Immortals [101 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [252 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, Triton A1 [123 pts]
      • Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1 [129 pts]
    • Air Wing [135 pts]
      • Athena Squad: Athena [135 pts]
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Berjiz

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostFri Jul 14, 2017 12:55 am

J.D. Welch wrote:OK, finally at my laptop, so I can grab my LVO list off of FFoR:

PHR 1500 - JD Welch - LVO2017
Clash: 1500/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1500/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [337 pts]
      • Hera Squad: Hera(Councillor), Hera (Guardian), 3x Apollo-A [337 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [320 pts]
      • Battle Squad: 2x Phobos, Njord [236 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Menchit A2: 2x Menchit A2 [84 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [63 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
    • Immortals [261 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Immortals [211 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Erebos Squad: 2x Erebos-B, Neptune [110 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [308 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]


How does this list do with CQB? Won't valkyries have problem reaching the middle in time? I'm also curiuos how you usually play the Menchite A2s.

Gonefishing wrote:Well, I personally am not sure on the Zeus as a Commander nowadays, or at least a Zeus as a commander with only one Bodyguard. With only 2 DP it can be easy to double out with a lucky shot, and if you have gone the whole hog and spent 120 points making him a level 4 (201 pts total), that's a prime target and a big risk with all the blast and E11 weapons out there nowadays.

I did have some quite good fun running a group like this however (Commander was lower level)

Hand of the Sphere [535 pts]
Command Squad: Zeus(Councillor), 2x Odin, Hyperion, Njord [435 pts]
Medusa: Medusa [100 pts]


The Medusa was there without a Triton X, as she can keep up with the Njord without it and her job was crowd control / Medic for the heavy squad. Add an Erebos squad into the mix and you have a Deathstar unit that can really take the pain! (and dish it out too).


Nice combo with the Medusa :D I'm going to try it when I play next time
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J.D. Welch

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostFri Jul 14, 2017 3:38 am

I generally try to avoid CQB with that list where I can, pick my fights and make sure I've got more than one squad of Infantry in there, and use the Menchit A2's as a means of managing opponents' Infantry. They're pointless to use against Eviscerators or Destroyers, but generally scare most other Infantry away from where they're heading.

Valks have no problem reaching midfield in time to do their job.

I really like the Menchit A2's. They serve as crowd control and a force multiplier for the Infantry I do have, as I mentioned, and their L-2 rockets come in handy in most situations. In some situations it's a crap shoot, cuz they're only E10, but when they do get thru, they hurt! I really like the synergy of the Njord carrying the Phobos squad and the Menchit squad, it's worked very well for me.
I love my job (well, I love having a job), but a bad day of gaming beats a good day of work every time!

http://www.theroadtovalhalla.blogspot.com
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Gonefishing

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostSun Jul 16, 2017 1:36 am

Prime example of different strokes for different folks :) - I don't rate either version of the Menchit, its too slow to be an effective flame solution and its secondary AT is limited and short ranged. A couple of Apollo B's will normally end up doing far more infantry flame damage than the A2 (less effective but able to firing straight away and rolling a lot of dice at far less cost). Granted they would not have the secondary AT option of the Menchit A2, or the psychological effect....but they would probably do more damage to their primary target over the course of a battle, while the Menchit is not guaranteed to get a shot.

It is a cheap way of getting Phobos from a standard BG into a Njord though. so that combo works (but you could use two Ares to do the same job at the same price....or even 2 bog standard Menchit for cheaper).

But as much as I utterly fail to find any point for them, I know lots of other users (you for example JD!) rate them!
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Stompzilla

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Re: Best 1500 all-comers list you could think of?

PostSat Jul 22, 2017 3:59 pm

J.D. Welch wrote:OK, finally at my laptop, so I can grab my LVO list off of FFoR:

PHR 1500 - JD Welch - LVO2017
Clash: 1500/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1500/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [337 pts]
      • Hera Squad: Hera(Councillor), Hera (Guardian), 3x Apollo-A [337 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [320 pts]
      • Battle Squad: 2x Phobos, Njord [236 pts]
      • ^ Sharing ^ Menchit A2: 2x Menchit A2 [84 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [63 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
    • Immortals [261 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Immortals [211 pts]
      • Immortals: 2x Immortals, Triton A1 [101 pts]
      • Erebos Squad: 2x Erebos-B, Neptune [110 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [308 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]


That, good sir, is a scary f*cking list!

Personally, I'm quite partial to the immovable object/irresistable force method of PHR which looks a lot like this:

Standard Army
Clash: 1493/1500 points
Standard Army
  • PHR Standard Roster [1493/1500 pts]
    • Hand of the Sphere [356 pts]
      • Medusa: Medusa, Triton X [140 pts]
      • Command Squad: Zeus(War Advisor), Odin, Neptune [216 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [223 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
      • Helios Squad: 2x Helios, Neptune [160 pts]
    • Battle Pantheon [63 pts]
      • Battle Squad: Phobos [63 pts]
    • Immortals [233 pts]
      • AM Rifle Team: 2x Immortal Longreach Team, Triton A1 [113 pts]
      • Erebos Squad: 2x Erebos-A, Neptune [120 pts]
    • Heavy Pantheon [275 pts]
      • Hades: Hades, Poseidon [275 pts]
    • Pegasus Group [343 pts]
      • Sirens: 2x Sirens, Triton A1 [129 pts]
      • Valkyries: 2x Valkyries, 2x Angelos [154 pts]
      • Mercury Drones: 4x Mercury [60 pts]

The Medusa acts as 4th infantry squad and is primarily a healer/ bullet soak. Later in the game, she might dart forward and kick some arse, or poke her nose out of a window and mess up some APCs etc.

Plenty of firepower but also plenty of healing power and units that mess with your opponent's ability to cause you damage. Erebos are the ultimate middle finger to Ferrum drones and a Hades is just so much more dangerous with a Poseidon. Very frustrating to play against, as they grind forwards over the remains of their enemy, taking little damage in return.
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