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Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

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Shikatanai

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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 6:25 am

Admiral JCJF wrote:I quite like the suggestion to just drop the "base" Sig for Battleships down to 9 (from the current 12).

With the standard "Scourge Sig Penalty" in place that would leave the Daemon and Dragon sitting on:

Scan 8 Sig 11 Thrust 8

And with that stat line I'd be more inclined to take one.

Now, I'd probably still take an Akuma or Basilisk first but that's just because they are in the running for best ships in the game.

With Sig 11 rather than 14 I'd expect the Battleship to get hit first, but actually have a decent chance of replying with its own shots back (rather than being highly unlikely to be able to do so).


Imho they still won't do much or trade poorly. In a game where you can measure everything every inch range disadvantage hurts, especially if you have high SR. Imho they'll definetly need the same Scan as Sig.
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Admiral JCJF

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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 10:10 am

It puts them into the same situation (more or less) as our Cruisers.

And there have been plenty of people arguing that those are still viable to fly.

I might disagree in most cases, but it'd at least make it worth considering them (or make putting them on the table less of a totally crippling disadvantage).
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Shikatanai

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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 12:13 pm

Admiral JCJF wrote:It puts them into the same situation (more or less) as our Cruisers.

And there have been plenty of people arguing that those are still viable to fly.

I might disagree in most cases, but it'd at least make it worth considering them (or make putting them on the table less of a totally crippling disadvantage).


I think there are some things to consider when comparing with cruisers:

a.) You won't be getting fire as early
b.) You have "more time" to approach because you are faster
c.) You have higher Threatranges (at least with Light Cruisers... I do not see normal Cruisers as good choice right now - only worth as fillers if necessary)
d.) You have lower SR, enabling potential double activations e.g. against a Battleship ;)

That's why I think the Battleship should have equal Scan and Sig - it would still have a worse Scan/Sig ratio compared to UCM.

It also must be considered that the Daemon will compete mainly with the Basilisk...
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Cry of the Wind

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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostWed Oct 11, 2017 7:35 pm

I said many times elsewhere that I agree that the sig of all non Shaltari battleships puts them at a huge disadvantage. No point in having extra guns if you are too slow and blind to be able to shoot back at the cruisers that are killing you.

I really like the idea of giving all BS's a larger scan range and slightly smaller sig. Would make me consider taking them over battlecruisers which have non of the negatives and most of the same firepower.
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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostThu Oct 12, 2017 11:47 am

Speed should always be factored in, in regard who shoots first. Each ship has an effective minimum engagement range of it´s speed + it´s scan. The suggestion does not change that, also battleships are quite attractive targets for active scanning.

Another factor is the approach system which disfavours battleship combined with the activation system as groups of smaller ships can often double tap battleships if they are not escorted.

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http://www.hawkforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7017
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Admiral JCJF

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Re: Scourge Battleships - Trap or Trash?

PostTue Oct 17, 2017 11:46 pm

There is another interesting "upgrade" possibility.

Would it be enough if Battleships could always fire one more weapon than usually permitted?

So a Battleship on Silent Running or Max Thrust could fire one weapon system, those on Active Scan, Course Change, Standard Orders etc. could fire two weapon systems and those on Weapons Free would still fire everything.

That feels like it might actually make quite a significant difference...

But enough?

Hmmn...
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