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Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

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JJMicromegas

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Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostThu May 18, 2017 7:22 pm

Hello, I am wondering if the Achilles I now viable given the three buffs with the latest rules update :
- All heavy calibre weapons crit on 1+ over their to-hit value
- It's heavy calibre weapon now has link
- Torpedoes are more difficult to avoid

Second question, with these changes do you think the Perseus or the Orion is preferable for the gun cruiser role?

Thanks in advance.
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Brutoni

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostFri May 19, 2017 6:15 am

I really want to try out the Achillies. Especially as you can be sure most take H or S due to the changes with Admiral rules! That said I'm not sure the Torpedo is worth it still. Too easy to fluff up the damage it causes.


Orion over Perseus would be my personal preference.
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Tychonaut

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostFri May 19, 2017 11:58 am

The buffs have made it a little bit better, but I think either the Heracles or Ajax do a similar duty better..

Heracles can hold the middle ground with the Dark Matter Cannon, then counter-punch with the bigger Heavy Broadsides.
It has the HP to survive being used this way, the Achilles doesn't.

The Ajax cost less points, and throws out more shots, and has a Burnthrough laser.
The Achilles fires the Torpedo at first opportunity, to prevent it being killed in the launcher, and then the ship gets ignored for the bigger threats, or dies because it had to get closer to be effective.


I guess it's just a question of balancing the 'Percieved Threat' each ship poses to your opponent at the time.
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CaptainCrunch

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostFri May 19, 2017 1:51 pm

I've used a pair of Achilles with a pair of Calypso using the new rules in a couple of games. I really like them. They put out very consistent damage. The torpedoes are meh because they must always wait a turn, so targets are most often dead before they become effective. If the torpedoes worked the same turn then I would say the Achilles is great .. but with current torpedo rules the Achilles is only decent to good.

I've never used a Perseus. Orion's were good in the two games I used them.

Having written everything above, I must say that I've used their Linked rules once, maybe twice ... ever, on the Achilles and Orion. Linked on opposite sides looks great on paper but is extremely difficult, and usually quite impractical, to pull off.
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shuul

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostMon May 22, 2017 7:44 am

Actually aggressive usage of Orion's+Calypsos is one of the heaviest damage I've ever seen, just use max thrust early and go through enemy lines and do not care about exploding cruisers. In my one games against shaltari I managed to get both-sides shooting 4 turns in a row, such quantity of firepower is very efficient against shaltari shields.
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Intruder313

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostSat Aug 05, 2017 10:55 pm

In my first 1,250 game I'd found I was unable to build my Battlecruiser (because there's no Widget hole in the Kickstarter Resin base!) and did not have time to build my Battleship, so used an Achilles as my 'Flagship'.

The Heavy Calibre Cannonade absolutely wrecked the Battlecruiser by UCM opponent had fielded.

Before that, the Torpedo and a host of Bombers (from various ships) took out his Heavy Cruiser.
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Shikatanai

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostSun Aug 06, 2017 9:12 am

Achilles:
I think it is playable now but still subpar if you compare it to others in slot... Torps still need a little tweaking imho.

Orion vs Perseus:
Orion hands down. I think the Perseus is the worst Ship at PHR right now. The Weapons are too mixed up and I don't see anything a Perseus would be worth using.
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A Horrible Spider

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostMon Aug 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Achilles still isn't great because torpedoes still aren't great. 6 damage sounds nasty, but it's only once per game and really you're looking at an average closer to 4. The slow startup, short range and potential to whiff don't help either. The guns are okay now, very reliable, but not enough to make up for the lacklustre torpedo.

Orion over Perseus every time. Heavy+light still isn't a good combo, especially since Percy can't be taken in pairs. Orion is a solid beatstick to charge into enemy lines and take territory with, extra solid now that linked makes double broadsides easier to pull off. If you specifically want to fight both lighter and heavier targets, take a Theseus gang or a battlecruiser.
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starbreaker

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostMon Aug 07, 2017 3:32 pm

Shikatanai wrote:Orion vs Perseus:
Orion hands down. I think the Perseus is the worst Ship at PHR right now. The Weapons are too mixed up and I don't see anything a Perseus would be worth using.


Seconded. It desperately needed the same "all broadsides at once" rule that most Orion cruisers got. The improvements to Heavy guns help, but it has so few of them it's not enough.
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killionaire

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Re: Achilles and Orion vs Perseus with the new rules

PostSun Aug 13, 2017 8:22 am

Perseus currently is a strong contender for 'worst cruiser in the whole game', across all factions. It does literally nothing right.
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