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If Shaltari drop really such strong?

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Rocy7

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If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostThu May 18, 2017 10:43 am

From my last conversation


E.J.
anyway, lets look at it this way, lets say phr, and shaltari spend 600 points in troop drop. 1 Ganymede, 2 Orpheus 5 media, total of 13 drops per turn, 3 heavy cruiser hulls, 2 burnthrough 6 bombardment, AND light and medium calibur broadsides. and it costs 3 medium groups and 3 light groups.
Shaltari, 4 Emerald 13 void gate, with a few points left over, thats a total drop of 12, 4 medium bodies, with (compared to phr above) meh to shit guns, 5 light groups, and the voidgates only give their batteries.

Now lets say we shoot down 1 medium, and one light body from each, the PHR loses drop capacity of 3, 1 bombardment, 1 burnthrough, and 1 light calibur broadside. The shaltari lose 3 capacity 1 of their only 4 decent gun arrays, a stratigic asset on the feild, possibly breaking a chain, possibly losing the capacity to drop AT ALL in a area. AND lose a battery, AND lose the capacity to transport 1 token a turn. OH and don't forget, that its WAY harder to do that much damage to the PHR than it is
to shaltari (IE, to do that much damage to phr you need to beat 18 hull at 3 up armor, For shaltari its 11 at 5 up armor (assuming no shields).
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dread2005

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostThu May 18, 2017 10:48 am

you can not compare this in the vacuum of only troop related choices!

the overall fleet makes it different, i.e. someone brings Corvettes....

and you did not bring any aspekts of BG rating and grouping as well no speed factores!

the Shaltari have superiorty in Range and Speed to get at the Deployment zones!

So they are first and have already established a Defence Batterie before any other Faction...

i miss important factors
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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CaptainCrunch

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostThu May 18, 2017 4:02 pm

First, you are ignoring the Void Gate's capacity to shoot around a third of the PHR drop capacity down with any one VG. Next, you ignore the relocation rules which can easily swing ground combats in Shaltari favor. Then, you fail to mention that the Emeralds do not need to be anywhere near the drop location, and often are hidden behind or in debris. Last, you post up a terrible Shaltari example with minimal extra VG capacity. Oh, and the PHR troop ships will very likely all be dead by turns 2-4. I'm not seeing any issue with Shaltari drop ... it's fine the way it is.
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Cry of the Wind

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostThu May 18, 2017 4:12 pm

I have to agree with the others here. You don't need 4 Emeralds, 3 will be fine since they won't have to fly on predicatble lanes directly towards their targets. Spend more points on Voidgates and protect them with some Glass and suddenly you are effective at dropping troops and preventing enemy troops from even reaching the ground simply by floating there. If you look at something in a vacuum it is easy to see weakness. My San Frans for example look utter crap on paper but they have won me games because of the big picture. Who cares if they have an Orpheus unit, your Diamond can wipe them off the board before they have range to shoot back at it! We can go like this in circles forever, point is you have to look at the entire fleet and how you use it, not just raw drop numbers as those never pan out in real games.
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Rocy7

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostFri May 19, 2017 6:03 am

So more motherships and voidgates is my only option?
Most my opponent take about 12-14 (Scourge, PHR) drop. To take the same amount of Voidgates and motherships I must spent about 480 or 610 PTS they spent 260-390 PTS. If I take more motherships that usually 2 I fear that I simply will not have enougth point to make a enought firepower in my fleet. (for 1250)

Shaltari bombardment is too slow to help.

I often lose many my Voidgates because of enemy corvettes, they are destroyed really fast. Maybe the answer can be in more Glass?
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dread2005

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostFri May 19, 2017 7:52 am

well if i would play shaltari i would do something like this:

--------------------------------------
SHAL Shilds Up - 1250pts
Shaltari - 7 launch assets

SR16 Flag battlegroup (310pts)
1 x Platinum - 270pts - S
   + Star Elder (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Opal - 40pts - L

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (245pts)
2 x Opal - 80pts - L
1 x Jet - 165pts - H

SR10 Line battlegroup (230pts)
2 x Turquoise - 230pts - M

SR11 Line battlegroup (190pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR11 Pathfinder battlegroup (190pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (45pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------


the SR3 voidgates can go deep into enemy boarders at turn 2, so drop from turn 3 and give defence batteries in turn 2 if there is allready a drop option for my foe

the Platinum gives PD cover to the CAW/Bombardement ships, which go early Shilds Up and have the Opal escorts

after this the CAW can clean orbit or sectores as needed

the enemy will try to deal with the SR3 voidgates first, so the other voidgates should have enought time to deploy troops

well this is theory i have played lets say 3 - 5 games with shaltari thats not much
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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ZombiePirate

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostFri May 19, 2017 10:23 am

Another of my "what-if" lists I designed for a friend. It's definitely a massive skew list, not sure how it would fair in battle, but, if you want to drop stuff......

Shaltari - 0 launch assets

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup
1 x Jet
2 x Amethyst

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup
1 x Jet
2 x Amethyst

SR14 Line battlegroup
1 x Emerald
3 x Voidgate
6 x Glass

SR14 Line battlegroup
1 x Emerald
3 x Voidgate
6 x Glass

SR12 Line battlegroup
1 x Emerald
3 x Voidgate
4 x Glass

SR10 Pathfinder battlegroup
1 x Emerald
3 x Voidgate
2 x Amethyst
------------- dflist.com -------------
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dread2005

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostFri May 19, 2017 12:47 pm

well how important are the emeralds, if your foe cant drop a thing! :lol:

a idea, not sure if it works but sounds funny

like in starwars do a Blockade! :twisted:

here we come with 18x Voidgates! Let the batteries hammer all incoming drops to dust

--------------------------------------
SHAL Blockade - 1242pts
Shaltari - 7 launch assets

SR16 Flag battlegroup (310pts)
1 x Platinum - 270pts - S
   + Star Elder (40pts, 3AV)
1 x Opal - 40pts - L

SR12 Vanguard battlegroup (245pts)
1 x Jet - 165pts - H
2 x Opal - 80pts - L

SR11 Line battlegroup (190pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR13 Line battlegroup (250pts)
1 x Turquoise - 115pts - M
5 x Glass - 90pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR3 Pathfinder battlegroup (45pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR10 Pathfinder battlegroup (162pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
4 x Glass - 72pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------
Quote: " nothing is ever easy " by zedicus zul zorrander

Dropfleet ADMIRAL may Mankind conquer the universe
UCM ~2500 Points, PHR ~2000 Points

Dropzone GENERAL revenge of Mankind
PHR 2000 Points, UCM 3500 Points
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Eddieddi

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Re: If Shaltari drop really such strong?

PostSat May 20, 2017 3:23 am

Seeing as I somehow keep getting quoted from the facebook on here (Yeah, the OP is quoting me, I was responding to someone being a total A-hole who was saying that Shaltari drop needs to be nerfed FURTHER and is of the opinion that Shaltari need nerfing even harder than they allready have been. (To give you perspective, he thinks that the jade and Topaz buff was unwarranted). So I was being a little over-exaggerated to try and get a point across.
Anyway, Coming off that debate I made a list which I then promptly went and played a game with. We were playing 1500, My opponant was playing PHR, took one Orpheus and 3 Media, With the intent of what he called 'meat grinding' my ships before scraping me out with bombardment. This is my drop heavest list yet, and was built for a mixed combat day. The mixed combat day starts off with (for space forces) 2 fleets blasting it out over space station assult, Then the players swap to other fleets and try and land, The planet has 'feral' forces so that players with resistance armies can play as 'harassers.'
This is the second fleet with the objective of landing as much as humanly possible to give my ground guys maximum support. while still maintaining a reasonable space fleet.
--------------------------------------
Strike group 2- 1487pts
Shaltari - 4 launch assets

SR17 Flag battlegroup (370pts)
1 x Diamond - 290pts - S
2 x Opal - 80pts - L

SR10 Vanguard battlegroup (185pts)
1 x Palladium - 185pts - H

SR13 Line battlegroup (245pts)
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR14 Line battlegroup (393pts)
1 x Basalt - 145pts - M
1 x Emerald - 100pts - M
4 x Topaz - 148pts - L

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (135pts)
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L
3 x Voidgate - 45pts - L

SR9 Pathfinder battlegroup (159pts)
6 x Glass - 108pts - L
1 x Voidgate - 15pts - L
2 x Glass - 36pts - L
------------- dflist.com -------------

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